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  1. #61
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    You wrote something here that I want to point out an that's that no villain other than the core one's ever seen to stay in Superman comics. I'm not even talking about new 52 only. Reborn as well. It's always Metallic here, Doomsday there, Zod on the weekend, ect. I always felt the Phantom King had potential and he was more than "just another kryptonian".
    Eh, you could say the same of most rogues galleries to be fair. Once the writer of a run moves on, most their original villains go with them. We probably won't see Leone again and Red Cloud is only a slight possibility.

  2. #62
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    You wrote something here that I want to point out an that's that no villain other than the core one's ever seen to stay in Superman comics. I'm not even talking about new 52 only. Reborn as well. It's always Metallic here, Doomsday there, Zod on the weekend, ect. I always felt the Phantom King had potential and he was more than "just another kryptonian".
    Phantom King showed up in Bendis Superman!


    And maybe Yang will use him in Batman/Superman. I really like Xa-Du. There’s two big reasons to keep him I feel:
    1. You can play around with him being corrupted by the Phantom Zone. I think Morrison made a mistake giving him the default Kryptonian powerset. If I was writing him I’d make him a space necromancer, able to summon the ghosts of the Phantom Zone into the real world and temporarily give them solid form. Able to raise the dead thanks to the power of the Zone. He’d be a walking Eldrich abomination, warping whatever local area he’s in. Basically make him a Space Lich, which his design already evokes.
    2. He’s delightfully evil which is fun in and of itself, but also good because he can be the cackling evil Kryptonian and let Zod move into the sympathetic Rogue.

    Zod has always had some great sympathetic qualities: he was friends with Jor-El, he staged a revolt because he believed Jor-El’s warnings and thought he had to take matters into his own hands, and for this he was imprisoned in Space Hell by Jor-El no less. He hates House El for this but he doesn’t want to kill them because he also wants to preserve the last Kryptonians. Hell when they make Kal evil, he’s basically just straight up Zod, even NRS lampshaded it in I2 when they had Kara flat out tell Murderman that he sounds more like Zod than Jor-El, and Kal prefers Zod’s mindset to Jor’s. So Zod can represent two very real fears Kal has of himself, either that he’s going to far and becoming a tyrant like Zod, or that he’s letting Earth die by not being more hands on, as Zod took too long to take decisive action. That’s all great stuff, and I do think Zod works far better when writers lean into that, as they did with New Krypton, as Venditti did in Hal N Pak’s, and as Bendis has done. I hope PKJ continues that trend.



    Keep Xa-Du around as the guy who wants to kill off humanity and rule over an empire of super-zombies, whose only ambition is to make life KNEEL before him. Zod’s main goal should be to ensure the survival of the Kryptonian race no matter what and he can be tense allies, grudgingly respectful rivals, or bitter enemies with the Els without ever losing sympathy.

  3. #63
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Sounds good.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaVi View Post
    Metallo, more than a villain, I see him as an antihero, the government's answer to Superman.
    Is this a hard and fast thing with Metallo now? When I was a kid, he was just a thug who was turned into a Kryptonite powered cyborg by a paranoid scientist. I haven't read a Metallo story in a long time.

    My favorite Superman villain (at least, the last time I read about him) is . . .
    Prankster.jpg
    He's like the Joker, if the Joker were actually fun to read about.

  5. #65
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Hey another Prankster fan!



    Yeah Busiek cracked that character to me. Basically keeping him as the Silver Age elaborate trap-maker who sells himself out as a distraction for hire is a fantastic villain. His goal isn’t to kill Superman or conquer the world, it’s just to keep Superman occupied long enough so that his employers can pull of their crimes while Superman is busy. I love that idea!

    Sadly no, we still get stories where Metallo is just a dumb thug (mostly in anthologies though), and no one has really cracked Metallo despite multiple writers adding great ideas and concepts to him. He still hasn’t had that one story that brings everything together and shows why he’s cool and worth keeping around, despite multiple great writers using him.



    Johns was the one to revamp him as a soldier, the government’s initial Anti-Superman weapon when they weren’t sure what his intentions were. That was an absolute fantastic idea, one of Johns greatest.



    During the New 52, Morrison played up his more sympathetic aspects. That he also desired Lois’ love alongside Clark, and actually became Metallo in part to protect her and the rest of the planet from the Superman “threat”. That the military used him as a human weapon afterwards. That he was addicted to Kryptonite. There’s a lot of great ideas at play here.

    Personally I think the way to go with Metallo is to make him the embodiment of the darker side of the American war machine. The way soldiers get used and tossed aside by their superiors. Rather than just have him out to kill Supes or steal money (both pretty banal stories that don’t really utilize him to his full potential imo), Metallo should be gunning for Sam Lane and maybe even the American military higher-ups/government as a whole, with Supes having to stop him while also sympathizing with his pain. I think that would be the way to finally unlock his potential.

    It’s a pity PKJ probably isn’t going to use him, because I think a guy who’s serving in the armed forces right now might have some interesting insights into how Corbyn could work.

  6. #66
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Hey another Prankster fan!



    Yeah Busiek cracked that character to me. Basically keeping him as the Silver Age elaborate trap-maker who sells himself out as a distraction for hire is a fantastic villain. His goal isn’t to kill Superman or conquer the world, it’s just to keep Superman occupied long enough so that his employers can pull of their crimes while Superman is busy. I love that idea!

    Sadly no, we still get stories where Metallo is just a dumb thug (mostly in anthologies though), and no one has really cracked Metallo despite multiple writers adding great ideas and concepts to him. He still hasn’t had that one story that brings everything together and shows why he’s cool and worth keeping around, despite multiple great writers using him.



    Johns was the one to revamp him as a soldier, the government’s initial Anti-Superman weapon when they weren’t sure what his intentions were. That was an absolute fantastic idea, one of Johns greatest.


    During the New 52, Morrison played up his more sympathetic aspects. That he also desired Lois’ love alongside Clark, and actually became Metallo in part to protect her and the rest of the planet from the Superman “threat”. That the military used him as a human weapon afterwards. That he was addicted to Kryptonite. There’s a lot of great ideas at play here.

    Personally I think the way to go with Metallo is to make him the embodiment of the darker side of the American war machine. The way soldiers get used and tossed aside by their superiors. Rather than just have him out to kill Supes or steal money (both pretty banal stories that don’t really utilize him to his full potential imo), Metallo should be gunning for Sam Lane and maybe even the American military higher-ups/government as a whole, with Supes having to stop him while also sympathizing with his pain. I think that would be the way to finally unlock his potential.

    It’s a pity PKJ probably isn’t going to use him, because I think a guy who’s serving in the armed forces right now might have some interesting insights into how Corbyn could work.
    All great ideas and I'll share some love for Buseik's take on Prankster. His run is underrated, even if I hate Lois Lane's haircut during it.

  7. #67
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Hey another Prankster fan!



    Yeah Busiek cracked that character to me. Basically keeping him as the Silver Age elaborate trap-maker who sells himself out as a distraction for hire is a fantastic villain. His goal isn’t to kill Superman or conquer the world, it’s just to keep Superman occupied long enough so that his employers can pull of their crimes while Superman is busy. I love that idea!

    Sadly no, we still get stories where Metallo is just a dumb thug (mostly in anthologies though), and no one has really cracked Metallo despite multiple writers adding great ideas and concepts to him. He still hasn’t had that one story that brings everything together and shows why he’s cool and worth keeping around, despite multiple great writers using him.



    Johns was the one to revamp him as a soldier, the government’s initial Anti-Superman weapon when they weren’t sure what his intentions were. That was an absolute fantastic idea, one of Johns greatest.



    During the New 52, Morrison played up his more sympathetic aspects. That he also desired Lois’ love alongside Clark, and actually became Metallo in part to protect her and the rest of the planet from the Superman “threat”. That the military used him as a human weapon afterwards. That he was addicted to Kryptonite. There’s a lot of great ideas at play here.

    Personally I think the way to go with Metallo is to make him the embodiment of the darker side of the American war machine. The way soldiers get used and tossed aside by their superiors. Rather than just have him out to kill Supes or steal money (both pretty banal stories that don’t really utilize him to his full potential imo), Metallo should be gunning for Sam Lane and maybe even the American military higher-ups/government as a whole, with Supes having to stop him while also sympathizing with his pain. I think that would be the way to finally unlock his potential.

    It’s a pity PKJ probably isn’t going to use him, because I think a guy who’s serving in the armed forces right now might have some interesting insights into how Corbyn could work.
    I really did not like that New 52 Metallo design, though. One thing Rebirth definitely improved on.

  8. #68
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    All great ideas and I'll share some love for Buseik's take on Prankster. His run is underrated, even if I hate Lois Lane's haircut during it.
    Those 00s fashion trends have not aged well lol

  9. #69
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Those 00s fashion trends have not aged well lol
    That one least of all!

  10. #70
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I really did not like that New 52 Metallo design, though. One thing Rebirth definitely improved on.
    Totally agree, the New 52 design is bad. Too “grounded” and “realistic” so it just ends up looking dull. I’m not wild on the current look, I think it makes Metallo look too skinny and doesn’t given enough of an intimidation factor. I did like how Mann drew it though. The Pre-Crisis look and the Byrne Terminator look don’t really work for me either. They still haven’t made a Metallo design that really clicks with me.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Hey another Prankster fan!

    Yeah Busiek cracked that character to me. Basically keeping him as the Silver Age elaborate trap-maker who sells himself out as a distraction for hire is a fantastic villain. His goal isn’t to kill Superman or conquer the world, it’s just to keep Superman occupied long enough so that his employers can pull of their crimes while Superman is busy. I love that idea!
    I think ultimately Prankster's real goal on a personal level is to just have fun causing chaos. But he found a way to make his hobby a job, so good for him.

    Sadly no, we still get stories where Metallo is just a dumb thug (mostly in anthologies though), and no one has really cracked Metallo despite multiple writers adding great ideas and concepts to him. He still hasn’t had that one story that brings everything together and shows why he’s cool and worth keeping around, despite multiple great writers using him.
    It's possible that Metallo will keep changing with the era and being whatever it's necessary for him to be. When he first shows up in the Silver Age, he's a reporter who had committed the perfect crime but then was in a car accident and got rebuilt by Dr. Vale. Then he went on a crime spree to steal Kryptonite to replace the atomic power source that was powering him.

    But that wasn't the big thing. The big thing was that . . . he looked just like Superman with a mustache. This was important so that he could try to pin his crime spree on Superman and so that Lois Lane could think her new coworker John Corben might secretly be Superman. And those things were important because Silver Age Superman comics.

  12. #72
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    You know...when it comes to Livewire, she has a similar origin in being originally developed for a TV show and making her way to comics like Harley Quinn, but she's not as popular...Why? Especially since modern Harley is a LOT like Livewire personality wise, the latter who was based on Tank Girl (Livewire even being voiced by the actress who played the character).

  13. #73
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    You know...when it comes to Livewire, she has a similar origin in being originally developed for a TV show and making her way to comics like Harley Quinn, but she's not as popular...Why? Especially since modern Harley is a LOT like Livewire personality wise, the latter who was based on Tank Girl (Livewire even being voiced by the actress who played the character).
    Harley’s popularity is tied up with Joker’s popularity. So even though she’s ditched Joker she still dresses and acts like him to maintain the tie, and that’s helped her longevity. She’s also been featured in pretty much every form of medium whereas Livewire has yet to get much exposure beyond the DCAU and the comics. Livewire sadly usually doesn’t get much play in the main Superman books. Wish we got more Reis art of her:


  14. #74
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Harley’s popularity is tied up with Joker’s popularity. So even though she’s ditched Joker she still dresses and acts like him to maintain the tie, and that’s helped her longevity. She’s also been featured in pretty much every form of medium whereas Livewire has yet to get much exposure beyond the DCAU and the comics. Livewire sadly usually doesn’t get much play in the main Superman books. Wish we got more Reis art of her:

    Remember when Livewire made her New 52 debut in a Batgirl comic? It's like sometimes Superman can't win .

  15. #75
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Remember when Livewire made her New 52 debut in a Batgirl comic? It's like sometimes Superman can't win .
    Least she got used, it sucks people don’t want to use her with Supes, although Gail Simone did a decent job with her in her brief Action run. Also damn am I sad we didn’t get a big widespread Supermythos shot from Reis during the Bendis era, I love his versions of Superman’s Rogues. Would’ve killed it redesigning Metallo or Parasite, that I’m sure of.

    Shamelessly stealing this from Twitter, I forgot how much I liked this artist’s rendition of Parasite:
    Last edited by Vordan; 01-18-2021 at 11:37 PM.

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