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  1. #106
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    The Up, Up, and Away power hungry scientist? He didn’t really do anything for me, I found him pretty boring. My favorite Kryptonite Man incarnation is Clay Ramses, the New 52 K-Man created by Morrison. Him being an abusive husband who wanted to find his wife and kid after Supes kicked his ass was a great way to elevate some of those “grounded” Golden Age social ills Superman started out fighting in the New 52.


    And yeah you’re right, New 52 Nimrod was definitely cast in the Kraven mold (hell look at their names, a “nimrod” is an idiot and a “craven” is a coward). That’s why I’d take that “look” for the Terran and base my revamp around it, but I wouldn’t keep the whole “Russian hunter” background since it’s too derivative imo. I just really love that look and don’t want to see it disappear forever like it seemingly is going too. Also I forgot Terra-Man was in the Legion cartoon


    They pretty heavily revamped him but that’s not a bad design at all.
    Oh wow, even I forgot he was in the cartoon.

  2. #107
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Oh wow, even I forgot he was in the cartoon.
    I really wish Tucker had gotten a shot at a Superman/WW/Flash solo cartoon, feel he had greater respect for the DC mythos outside the Batverse than Timm did.

  3. #108
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor-Ul View Post
    To me, Nimrod seems like a great white hunter vibe. Like Kraven, but with high tech. Not cowboy.

    Someone else has read the Superman 2000 proposal? It had interesting takes on the Superman rogues and making interesting approaches to the characters, like giving Metallo a red kryptonite heart , making Myzptlk a more Loki-ist attitude deity and transforming the Prankster into the ultimate troller/anarchist.
    Some of them were interesting but honestly I kind of found the villain portions of the Superman 2000 pitch the weak part of the proposal. I remember thinking the Bizzaro concept was kind of cool but also a bit too out there for me.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    And yeah you’re right, New 52 Nimrod was definitely cast in the Kraven mold (hell look at their names, a “nimrod” is an idiot and a “craven” is a coward).
    You know Nimrod is the name of a Biblical character who was a hunter, right? The only reason anyone thinks it means "idiot" is because Bugs Bunny said the name condescendingly in one of his cartoons. So, maybe he had that in mind, but it could have just been that he wanted to name him something synonymous with "hunter".

  5. #110
    OUTRAGEOUS!! Thor-Ul's Avatar
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    Another character I would like to see more would be Manchester Black.

    Also, teh Kryptonite people were a curious addition to the rogues gallery. I mean, there never has been a clear identity for the kryptonite based characters.
    "Never assign to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity or ignorance."

    "Great stories will always return to their original forms"

    "Nobody is more dangerous than he who imagines himself pure in heart; for his purity, by definition, is unassailable." James Baldwin

  6. #111
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamFTF View Post
    You know Nimrod is the name of a Biblical character who was a hunter, right? The only reason anyone thinks it means "idiot" is because Bugs Bunny said the name condescendingly in one of his cartoons. So, maybe he had that in mind, but it could have just been that he wanted to name him something synonymous with "hunter".
    You’d have a pretty hard time convincing me there was zero connection between the two in Morrison’s mind when he created him given that he is also a Russian big game Hunter who is explicitly out to kill Superman for the challenge lol. Yep I’m aware of the Biblical origin, but in modern usage the name means “idiot”.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thor-Ul View Post
    Another character I would like to see more would be Manchester Black.

    Also, teh Kryptonite people were a curious addition to the rogues gallery. I mean, there never has been a clear identity for the kryptonite based characters.
    I really enjoyed Black Dawn by Tomasi. I think Manchester as a dark inversion of Superman’s inspirational status, a figure for the super powered people who want to kill the people they feel they should kill, could work really well as a long term role for him. Also this remains one of my all time favorite pages:



    The disrespect, it’s downright beautiful

  7. #112
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    Volcana_DCAU_001.jpg

    I'm still waiting for them to incorporate Claire Selton/ Volcana into the mainstream comics (she's like the last interesting DCAU character yet to have a big leap over to the main books; we've already had Harley, Livewire, Lock-Up, Roxy, Montoya etc).

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Sadly no, we still get stories where Metallo is just a dumb thug (mostly in anthologies though), and no one has really cracked Metallo despite multiple writers adding great ideas and concepts to him. He still hasn’t had that one story that brings everything together and shows why he’s cool and worth keeping around, despite multiple great writers using him.
    I think the DCAU did this, Metallo was incredible in Superman TAS.


  9. #114
    OUTRAGEOUS!! Thor-Ul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Multiverse View Post
    Volcana_DCAU_001.jpg

    I'm still waiting for them to incorporate Claire Selton/ Volcana into the mainstream comics (she's like the last interesting DCAU character yet to have a big leap over to the main books; we've already had Harley, Livewire, Lock-Up, Roxy, Montoya etc).
    She did appear!! Well, really it was just a cameo appearance but nothing to highlight about. I suppose it would need a good writer for an story to stablish her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    I think the DCAU did this, Metallo was incredible in Superman TAS.

    Oh, yes, they give Metallo a motivation and deep far more than simply hate Superman just because.

    This thread made think about the kind of rogues Superman have or at least how to classify them: I catalogued four kind of rogues:

    1) The rogues who made one apparition. This characters just have one appearance and are mostly one footnote. Either as joke or as one stand story.
    2) The background enemies: characters who appear on a regular basis, but without too much to stand out. They either appear for a time as regular background characters or are constant appearances without being nothing beyond than Superman's regulars. They can pop in and out from the books, but there they are.
    3) The enemies with a relevant history behind: this characters have a memorable tale which support its status as a Superman rogue. Can either be its debut story or a particular storyline than defined/redefined their characteristics. Examples: Manchester Black, Cyborg Superman, Doomsday.
    4) The stablished rogues: either for tradition, constant presence or a definited story, this rogues share an important characteristic with Superman and that is they are a twist to the character and that link them to the character. As was explained in the Superman 2000 proposal, the most traditional rogues are in some aspect the opposition to the Superman concept: Lex Luthor is the human "Ubermensch", Brainiac is the alien without humanity, Metallo is the heartless man of steel, Parasite is the ultimate taker whereas Superman is the ultimate giver, Doomsday is the unleashed superpower and so.

    Thsi list is not absoloute, is open to critique and reevaluation.
    "Never assign to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity or ignorance."

    "Great stories will always return to their original forms"

    "Nobody is more dangerous than he who imagines himself pure in heart; for his purity, by definition, is unassailable." James Baldwin

  10. #115
    Astonishing Member Mutant God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamFTF View Post
    Okay, I don't really see them as "jokey" villains as "gimmick" villains. Not in a condescending way, but in that they use gadgets and traps with specific themes. But let's say that is the case. If we go through Superman's rogues gallery and picked out the "jokey" villains, then we've got Toyman, Prankster and maybe some version of the Puzzler. The original Puzzler was themed around puzzles and parlor games. The new Puzzler is . . . well, basically a joke with a badly used superpower. Maybe a couple of other Golden Age villains we might never see again. If we expand the parameters of the "jokey" villains past "gimmick" villains to humorous ones with actual powers, then we also have to extend it to Mr. Mxyzptlk, who is a walking, floating comedy cartoon character. Unless they've tried to make him serious again, which is always a bad idea. So, that's four overall that might be worth naming. It's still not a lot. Especially compared to characters like Batman who have tons of villains with silly gimmicks. Maybe you don't care for the gimmicks they use with it being all toys, games, puzzles and practical jokes, but they were developed during a time when superhero comics were playing to an audience of 8-year-olds and that's probably never going to completely wash out of the genre's base DNA. In the end, there aren't limited slots for villains so none of them really have to be gotten rid of. And since Superman is one of the true generalists in superhero comics, there's room for villains of every type and genre.

    Personally, if you twisted my arm and made me pick one of those villains to get rid of, I'd probably pick Toyman. I just don't think he ever really recovered from when they made him a child killer in the '90s.

    I just meant if theres more then one of them in a one rogue's gallery then they don't stand out as much and I don't want to get rid of them I said they should be given to another hero who only has less villains or don't have a "jokey" villain in their franchise. I don't count Mxyptilk as one because I see him as a reality warper/cosmic threat. Batman is a non-powered hero so it makes sense that his villains are also non-powered but with a few super powered ones to expand his franchise, but also some of them have a chemistry/dynamic with Batman and have a place in his history and like you said before with too many of them they end up trying to repeat what others have done and end up not standing out an example would be Riddler-Cluemaster. Since Toyman has the most appearances outside of comics and the Cat/Adam Grant situation, in my opinion between him, Prankster and Puzzler I think he should be the one to stay as a Superman

  11. #116
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    I think the DCAU did this, Metallo was incredible in Superman TAS.

    Yep this is one of those “really great ideas” I was talking about. Metallo’s transformation costing him his ability to feel and enjoy life’s simple pleasures is a great idea. Take that aspect, the military background Johns gave him, and the more sympathetic characterization from Morrison, plus a really cool look and I definitely think Metallo could finally get the breakout story he deserves.

  12. #117
    Extraordinary Member Prime's Avatar
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    I would like to see Nimrod the hunter

  13. #118
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Never in a million years would’ve thought Busiek’s Subjekt-17 might end up getting adapted on Superman & Lois, but hey looks like it’s happening!



    It’s been a long time since I sat down and read Busiek’s entire run, but I remember the interesting thing about this guy being his Anti-Superman nature. Sure doesn’t sound interesting I know, “Superman but evil” is an overused gimmick for Superman bad guys, but what made Subjekt interesting was his contrast with the core belief of Superman: That humans are good and capable of being better than they appear. This guy wasn’t raised by a happy couple in Norman Rockwell’s America, instead he was raised by the Soviet military and used as a test subject. I’ve often wondered if Johns “Project Superman” Flashpoint conception came from this Busiek villain, because the set up is very familiar. On account of the abuse he recieved this guy hates humans, and has good reason to do so, living proof that some humans are bastards frankly, and forces Superman to confront that while also still being someone he can engage in slugfests with.

  14. #119
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    The Up, Up, and Away power hungry scientist? He didn’t really do anything for me, I found him pretty boring. My favorite Kryptonite Man incarnation is Clay Ramses, the New 52 K-Man created by Morrison. Him being an abusive husband who wanted to find his wife and kid after Supes kicked his ass was a great way to elevate some of those “grounded” Golden Age social ills Superman started out fighting in the New 52.
    Man that really is a great concept.

  15. #120
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    Can't say I remember all of them but here's a lengthy list:

    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Superman_Villains

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