Which DC run/story considered a "Classic" did you never understand the hype?

[Aahz]

Long Halloween/Dark Victory - never found them that great, and I'm not really a fan of that art style

Morrisons Batman Run - to messy and convoluted for me, and I don't like any of the villains he created, they seems just wired for the sake of being wired

Grayson - to much stuff from Morrisons Run, to much Filler, no really strong stand alone arc, and a week ending

A Lonely Place of Dying - it's like Death in the Family an important story, but as story not that great

Gotham by Gaslight - the identity of the villain is so obvious you see can see it coming before he has even done anything

Priests Deathstroke Run - also to messy and convoluted and I'm also not a fan of anything he added to the mythos

[Aahz]

Batman: Year Two.

Picked it up after hearing about how it influenced Mask of the Phantasm and....ugh. I can see why O'Neill decided to chuck this into the non-continuity bin.

I don't think anyone considers this a classic.

[married guy]

Green Lantern/Green Arrow
Such a huge amount of hoopla attached to it, but I found it pretty average.
It just hasn't aged well at all.

[godisawesome]

Batman: The Killing Joke - it’s a good-to-great Joker monologue, but otherwise a mix of lackluster main plot, a weaker Joker origin story (I don’t care for the failed comedian idea), and an abysmal use of Babs (the main reason I find Death in the Family better is because Jason actually does something), and a colder Batman that always tends to appear whenever someone wants to put the focus on Joker instead.

All-Star Superman - I wasn’t even that much of a fan of the cartoon, and it’s primarily because I just don’t care for that personality for Superman; it’s too banal and featureless. I prefer some attitude to Supes.

[Jim Kelly]

Green Lantern/Green Arrow
Such a huge amount of hoopla attached to it, but I found it pretty average.
It just hasn't aged well at all.

How old were you in 1971 when you read this?

[JAG2045]

Not really a classic but I do not get the hype for Court/ Night of the Owls. It has cool art and aesthetic, and the beginning with the mystery was intriguing, and the Labyrinth is cool, but the story itself is literally nothing. I liked Zero Year much more and yet people seemed to find it weaker.

I really didn't like this story and don't get the hype for it

I felt the same with Batman: Black Mirror - its an alright story but I cant see why it always gets ranked so high compared to other stories

[SiegePerilous02]

Most modern Batman stories: TDKR, Death in the Family, Knightfall, Long Halloween/Dark Victory, Hush, Dixon's entire era across the Bat-books. Just either unspeakably boring to me and/or just unpleasant reads because Bruce is boring and a one note grouch. Jeph Loeb's Batman in particular is just a stilted, repetitive piece of wood who can't even solve two back to back basic bitch mysteries. Court of Owls was also ok, but not something I have a strong urge to read again.

Byrne's Superman run. Sucked all the fun out of Superman and worse laid the foundation for the next few decades that we're unable to get away from.

I like Waid's Flash run, but don't think it's especially amazing outside of the great "Return of Barry Allen" story.

I haven't read the O'Neil/Adams GL/GA run, but from what I've seen I don't think it's gonna be that great outside of the art.

Johns on JSA was good, but not as great as people say, IMO.

Azzarello's Wonder Woman in certain circles.

Fans of superman really need to stop pronouncing this in union as this great work, use your own tastes and list some books more deserving and pick some from the actual continuity rather then always pointing to a mini series

It is a great book in a lot of peoples opinions, so they don't need to stop doing any such thing.

Actual main continuity sucks 90% of the time, so a mini series shouldn't be viewed as inferior just because its a mini outside of it. That's actually a strength, not a weakness in a lot of cases.

[WebLurker]

Gonna say Watchmen; tried reading it and found it to be an ugly story with little artistic value.

Pretty much anything by Tom Taylor but especially Injustice.

Loved his All-New Wolverine series for Marvel, though.

[SiegePerilous02]

Ennis is either utterly fantastic or unbelievably awful for me. I really enjoyed Preacher but it’s a work that feels very 00’s to be honest.

I have the first three volumes of Preacher and liked it so far, as well as his Hellblazer run. Outside of those, I don't think I care for Ennis that much. His hatred of superheroes can get tiresome even when he makes some good points about the genre, especially as he still favors some uber-macho archetypes that I think are more harmful than anything superheroes embody. He'll put in some "the gun toting tough guys are bad too" stuff, but it feels half assed.

[tib2d2]

I'm enjoying this thread VERY much. I feel we're doing a good job at being respectful with one another and not arguing with someone for "how can you lot like that classic run???".

Well done everyone

[Menacer]

It is a great book in a lot of peoples opinions, so they don't need to stop doing any such thing.

Actual main continuity sucks 90% of the time, so a mini series shouldn't be viewed as inferior just because its a mini outside of it. That's actually a strength, not a weakness in a lot of cases.

I'll just copy and paste my response from before.

I'll just highlight my main issuen if you ask for best superman story/book and 100 fans all answer allstar superman, its annoying and useless as a means to get a running list of stories to check out.

Here's the original response if your interested
‐---------

No definitely not interested in a fight.

Personal things don't need to be in continuity or not to matter... by that token All Star is by default not in continuity...

As a new reader, back in 2016 (tho I'd read as a child) its hugely pointless to get hundreds of long time fans point to just one book ...

Itd be like if you asked whats a great 90s film friends. And we all just said the Titanic, or Forrest Gump..

Not to take away from either of the films... but as someone wanting to explore 90s films getting only 1 recommendations means you essentally get no recommendations...

You guys are all so well read. Dig deeper and dont recommend the default All Star...

Ultimately if you love this book all the power to you... if your recommendations is genuine then fine...

I Agree Morrisons Action is great

Over a long enough period of time all the stories get retconned or reboot... reading a supergirl story from the 80s has no baring on a 90s or 00s or 2020 story.

Wouldnt keep me from recommending good books

Also the average entry level reader who asks "recommend good Superman stories"

Likely couldnt care less about continuity. Arguably continuity exists for a given run for however long a writer is on the book... and I'd argue New52 Superman Morrison has a pretty good though line right up til Bendis, sure there is the Final Days story so that Superman dies but then Convergence, Rebirth, and eventually the Reborn merging is a solid 25 Volume run, its not perfect but enough sticks that it creates some semblance of continuity... but characters change and evolve.

Any case.
No I'm not trying to be a dick... typing on my phone rather then say using a laptop or desktop does cause me to write more abruptly and less tactfully.

[SiegePerilous02]

I'll just copy and paste my response from before.

I'll just highlight my main issuen if you ask for best superman story/book and 100 fans all answer allstar superman, its annoying and useless as a means to get a running list of stories to check out.

Here's the original response if your interested

I saw your response from before, and I agree that you're not interested in starting a fight.

But most recommendations I've seen that include All-Star also include other books. So while it appears on most lists, it's almost never the only one and it popping up so much means it IS generally regarded as that good.

The main problem is that for modern comics written in a modern style that isn't dated, there isn't a long list of easily accessible and great Superman comics to recommend to people. Aside from All-Star, we have some other stand alone ones like Red Son and Smashes the Klan, and Morrison's Action was the best main canon run he's had recently, but even that was very short compared to a lot of other long runs. There isn't a lot of other stuff going on with modern Superman, nothing that isn't either just pretty good but bland standard fare or outright terrible* and the deep dives for older stuff can be difficult if newer readers don't like the older writing styles. For that Alan Moore is the best, but even some of the best Maggin stuff would be difficult to recommend in that capacity even if it has a better grasp on the character than most modern stuff.

*All personal opinion natch, I'm way more picky with Superman (and Wonder Woman) content than Batman. And even with Batman as you saw, I'm not too thrilled with his modern "classics."

[Menacer]

I saw your response from before, and I agree that you're not interested in starting a fight.

But most recommendations I've seen that include All-Star also include other books. So while it appears on most lists, it's almost never the only one and it popping up so much means it IS generally regarded as that good.

The main problem is that for modern comics written in a modern style that isn't dated, there isn't a long list of easily accessible and great Superman comics to recommend to people. Aside from All-Star, we have some other stand alone ones like Red Son and Smashes the Klan, and Morrison's Action was the best main canon run he's had recently, but even that was very short compared to a lot of other long runs. There isn't a lot of other stuff going on with modern Superman, nothing that isn't either just pretty good but bland standard fare or outright terrible* and the deep dives for older stuff can be difficult if newer readers don't like the older writing styles. For that Alan Moore is the best, but even some of the best Maggin stuff would be difficult to recommend in that capacity even if it has a better grasp on the character than most modern stuff.

*All personal opinion natch, I'm way more picky with Superman (and Wonder Woman) content than Batman. And even with Batman as you saw, I'm not too thrilled with his modern "classics."

Yah I hear your point.

I guess in general I dislike people pointing to minis...

I guess I also disagree that Superman is a wasteland in continuity... I love mounds and mounds of his continuity!

So maybe the big difference is I have stories in continuity that I can point to and say I love...

And the more critical fans can't be pleased with the quality flux in continuity so by default they point to All Star...

Or maybe it truely is as amazing as everyone says and I just can't see it. For me it's an average and dated feeling piece...

Any case I realize disliking a monolithic work is a losing battle...

But that was the point of the thread.

Cheers mate!

[Jim Kelly]

Maybe this is just a semantic argument and not what the original poster intended, but to me not understanding the hype is different from if you read something that got a positive reacion and it just wasn't for you. There are lots of comics I'm not enthused about, but if they're comics that have been talked up by comic book fans, I usually know why. Or I can find out. I don't understand the not understanding.

Is it really that hard to find out the context in which Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams teamed up Green Lantern and Green Arrow and why that garnered attention at the time? And why that would be important in comics history?

There aren't many D.C. books that get a positive response where I don't understand why the fanbase has that reaction. I can only think of examples from other publishers where I was at a loss to understand it. Like back in the 1980s, Marvel had a lot of success with books like THE 'NAM--I didn't understand why that happened at that time. But if it was really something I needed to solve for myself, I probably could figure it out.

I don't see past works being presented out of context as though they are new books and have a totally modern approach. They are put forward by our very small community as works of interest in light of when they came out. I guess if you picked up something expecting it to scratch your itch and it didn't do what you expected, then you'd have a reason to feel let down. But I don't think fandom is trying to get one over on you by suggesting these titles from a bygone era.

I don't even regard that as hype. Comic books get very little attention at all--movies based on comic books get a lot more attention. It's hardly hyperbolic if a few hundred fans say that this comic from such and such a period is worth checking out. They are just trying to be helpful. But you can't expect comics from the past to do all the work for you--it takes some effort to understand the context and see the comics from that perspective.

I find this more with movies. If I had watched LA RÈGLE DU JEU (THE RULES OF THE GAME) absent of any context, I would not be that impressed by it. It just seems to be a French farce. But knowing how the movie was taken by French audiences in 1939 and all that Jean Renoir was doing, I have a good appreciation of the movie even if it isn't my favourite Renoir film.

[Lightning Rider]

I'm not sure what the fuss over Hush was all about. Jim Lee's art was good, but the writing was odd and underwhelming. It's constantly referred to as a Batman classic, but it feels like very little happens in it, and Bruce isn't sketched out very well. (At least that's my memory of the experience.)