Which DC run/story considered a "Classic" did you never understand the hype?

[kcekada]

The Green Lantern/Green Arrow run.

Maybe it just didn't age well but rather than ground breaking tales it read like a parody. I'm expecting the comic book equivalent of Star Trek or All in the Family but i get paper tin plots, strawmen protagonists and surptise that this team could be the same guy that wrote the Batman/R'as stories.

Without the Neal Adams art, I don't think that run would be as fondly remembered. It was, however, groundbreaking in its day, and the art is still sweet to view.

[SiegePerilous02]

Yah I hear your point.

I guess in general I dislike people pointing to minis...

I guess I also disagree that Superman is a wasteland in continuity... I love mounds and mounds of his continuity!

So maybe the big difference is I have stories in continuity that I can point to and say I love...

And the more critical fans can't be pleased with the quality flux in continuity so by default they point to All Star...

Or maybe it truely is as amazing as everyone says and I just can't see it. For me it's an average and dated feeling piece...

Any case I realize disliking a monolithic work is a losing battle...

But that was the point of the thread.

Cheers mate!

I would like mounds of continuity for Superman too. Unfortunately for a lot of the stuff I like with Superman, the continuity I prefer hasn't been consistently around since the 80s

But we're in agreement that the idea is nice instead of just relying on minis!

I'm not sure what the fuss over Hush was all about. Jim Lee's art was good, but the writing was odd and underwhelming. It's constantly referred to as a Batman classic, but it feels like very little happens in it, and Bruce isn't sketched out very well. (At least that's my memory of the experience.)

It's not just you. It's a vehicle for Lee's art, designed to show the "greatest hits" of Batman with most of his prominent allies and villains, but has a transparent mystery and an utterly lame new villain. Plus all the villains speak in their weird "Loeb" speak that was annoying in their TLH/DV appearances (Scarecrow speaking in nursery rhyme, Ivy's "did you know no man can resist me?!" stuff).

Hard to feel the Bat-Cat romance scenes too. And not because it's Selina, it'd be the same with anyone else. The problem is Bruce coming across as dull and emotionless with some of the most boring dialogue the character has ever uttered.

[basbash99]

Without the Neal Adams art, I don't think that run would be as fondly remembered. It was, however, groundbreaking in its day, and the art is still sweet to view.

This. The writing came across as pretty hamfisted even when i was first reading it in back in 1985 or so (DC had reprinted the run in a 7-issue series on baxter paper). But you could see why it was considered important even the writing was kinda eyeroll-inducing. And of course the artwork is still remarkable.

I didn't think the Levitz/Giffen Legion run quite lived up the hype when i got a trade of the great darkness saga awhile back... but then, most things don't. Still an entertaining enough read, though.

I thought King's Omega Men run was extremely, extremely overrated.

[Menacer]

I would like mounds of continuity for Superman too. Unfortunately for a lot of the stuff I like with Superman, the continuity I prefer hasn't been consistently around since the 80s

But we're in agreement that the idea is nice instead of just relying on minis!



It's not just you. It's a vehicle for Lee's art, designed to show the "greatest hits" of Batman with most of his prominent allies and villains, but has a transparent mystery and an utterly lame new villain. Plus all the villains speak in their weird "Loeb" speak that was annoying in their TLH/DV appearances (Scarecrow speaking in nursery rhyme, Ivy's "did you know no man can resist me?!" stuff).

Hard to feel the Bat-Cat romance scenes too. And not because it's Selina, it'd be the same with anyone else. The problem is Bruce coming across as dull and emotionless with some of the most boring dialogue the character has ever uttered.

Okay recommend some Volumes from 80s runs you like.
I'm always collecting and admittingly havent got that far back for Superman... most of my stuff is 90s to present.

I got an epic used book store 1 block from my house I'm guessing they'll have something from your list.

[Frontier]

It's not just you. It's a vehicle for Lee's art, designed to show the "greatest hits" of Batman with most of his prominent allies and villains, but has a transparent mystery and an utterly lame new villain. Plus all the villains speak in their weird "Loeb" speak that was annoying in their TLH/DV appearances (Scarecrow speaking in nursery rhyme, Ivy's "did you know no man can resist me?!" stuff).

Hard to feel the Bat-Cat romance scenes too. And not because it's Selina, it'd be the same with anyone else. The problem is Bruce coming across as dull and emotionless with some of the most boring dialogue the character has ever uttered.

At least with Hush we got "Heart of Hush" in Dini's 'Tec run and a cool sequence in Arkham City.

I think Loeb's Bruce was pretty up to standard, but personal tastes are known to vary...

[Gaius]

DCeased is also quite bad but that goes without saying when you combine Tom Taylor and a Zombie apocalypse story.

[The Darknight Detective]

The Green Lantern/Green Arrow run.

Maybe it just didn't age well but rather than ground breaking tales it read like a parody. I'm expecting the comic book equivalent of Star Trek or All in the Family but i get paper tin plots, strawmen protagonists and surptise that this team could be the same guy that wrote the Batman/R'as stories.

Yeah, it worked a heck of lot better back in the '70s than it does now, but the whole "GL hasn't done anything for the black man" rubbed me the wrong way even then. The late, great Denny O'Neill wrote a lot of wonderful stories, but I don't find this run as near the top of his heap. Adams, of course, was always top of the line.

[SiegePerilous02]

Okay recommend some Volumes from 80s runs you like.
I'm always collecting and admittingly havent got that far back for Superman... most of my stuff is 90s to present.

I got an epic used book store 1 block from my house I'm guessing they'll have something from your list.

Unfortunately, a lot of pre-Crisis stuff isn't available in convenient trades. Of the stuff that is that I've read, I'd go for Steve Gerber's Phantom Zone mini series, plus of course Alan Moore's stories. They aren't comics, but Elliot S! Maggin did a couple prose novels ("Last Son of Krypton" and "Miracle Monday") that are pretty great.


Other Maggin stories that are worth a read are Superman #400, "Who took the 'Super' our of Superman?'" in #s 296-299, #247 (this one is in a few of the "Greatest Superman Stories Ever Told" trades). Again though, they are dated in writing styles due to being written in the 70s. They get the character and what makes him interesting and inspirational way better than most modern stuff though if you can get past that, but that's kind of what makes being a fan of pre-Crisis Superman's characteristics not being around consistently anymore so frustrating.

At least with Hush we got "Heart of Hush" in Dini's 'Tec run and a cool sequence in Arkham City.

I think Loeb's Bruce was pretty up to standard, but personal tastes are known to vary...

Even in that stuff, Hush himself is usually the least interesting thing going on.

I guess it does line up with post-Crisis Bruce in general, though that doesn't help in my case because that dude is a tedious bore

I feel like Loeb's Bruce, with every other narration box, he's angsting about his dead parents and how he has so few friends and even the ones he has, there are obvious issues. It just gets tiresome

[Frontier]

Even in that stuff, Hush himself is usually the least interesting thing going on.

I guess it does line up with post-Crisis Bruce in general, though that doesn't help in my case because that dude is a tedious bore

I feel like Loeb's Bruce, with every other narration box, he's angsting about his dead parents and how he has so few friends and even the ones he has, there are obvious issues. It just gets tiresome

I thought Kevin Conroy as evil Bruce Wayne was pretty fun and Dini wrote a great elitist egomaniac obsessed with Bruce Wayne, but to each their own .

I was thinking Post-Crisis from B:TAS, but that was just my take...

I think internal narration just tend to lend towards a lot of self-reflection in general, especially for a stoic character like Batman, and in some ways give context to the characters within the story.

[Menacer]

Unfortunately, a lot of pre-Crisis stuff isn't available in convenient trades. Of the stuff that is that I've read, I'd go for Steve Gerber's Phantom Zone mini series, plus of course Alan Moore's stories. They aren't comics, but Elliot S! Maggin did a couple prose novels ("Last Son of Krypton" and "Miracle Monday") that are pretty great.


Other Maggin stories that are worth a read are Superman #400, "Who took the 'Super' our of Superman?'" in #s 296-299, #247 (this one is in a few of the "Greatest Superman Stories Ever Told" trades). Again though, they are dated in writing styles due to being written in the 70s. They get the character and what makes him interesting and inspirational way better than most modern stuff though if you can get past that, but that's kind of what makes being a fan of pre-Crisis Superman's characteristics not being around consistently anymore so frustrating.



Even in that stuff, Hush himself is usually the least interesting thing going on.

I guess it does line up with post-Crisis Bruce in general, though that doesn't help in my case because that dude is a tedious bore

I feel like Loeb's Bruce, with every other narration box, he's angsting about his dead parents and how he has so few friends and even the ones he has, there are obvious issues. It just gets tiresome

No omnibus collections.

I'll copy what you wrote and see if my used book store has anything.

[SiegePerilous02]

I thought Kevin Conroy as evil Bruce Wayne was pretty fun and Dini wrote a great elitist egomaniac obsessed with Bruce Wayne, but to each their own .

I was thinking Post-Crisis from B:TAS, but that was just my take...

I think internal narration just tend to lend towards a lot of self-reflection in general, especially for a stoic character like Batman, and in some ways give context to the characters within the story.

BTAS bruce had more emotions though,

the problem with the narration boxes is that Bruce is still stoic and they are not revealing anything particularly deep. How many "Tommy is a good friend...of which I have so few." dialogue boxes do we need? he's just so flat.

[Frontier]

BTAS bruce had more emotions though,

I think they ran a similar gamut of emotions, to be honest.

the problem with the narration boxes is that Bruce is still stoic and they are not revealing anything particularly deep. How many "Tommy is a good friend...of which I have so few." dialogue boxes do we need? he's just so flat.

I don't think it was that repetitive, but I might need to re-read it again. But there was more than just Tommy in there so it probably didn't bother me.

[SiegePerilous02]

I think they ran a similar gamut of emotions, to be honest.

They really didn't, though that may be down to different mediums and Conroy having different inflections.

Loeb's Bruce just reads as monotonous.

I don't think it was that repetitive, but I might need to re-read it again. But there was more than just Tommy in there so it probably didn't bother me.

It wasn't just Tommy. He had the same flat "tone" to the dialogue when talking about everyone. Selina, Dick, Clark. etc.

[married guy]

How old were you in 1971 when you read this?

HA!!
Nope, I was born in '73 but read it as a kid and again when I bought the trades of the run.

[CaptCleghorn]

Green Lantern/Green Arrow
Such a huge amount of hoopla attached to it, but I found it pretty average.
It just hasn't aged well at all.

It definitely hasn't aged well at all. The hoopla was based on comparing it to what else was on American news stands at the time and it's pretty factual that GL/GA was dramatically different with subject matter and Adams photorealistic art. I can see loving or hating the work, but "average" seems a totally inappropriate description for the run.