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  1. #211
    Astonishing Member Exodus's Avatar
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    Sounds extremely exciting. Really can't wait!

    I'm not really sure I understand why mutants need a religion though?!?! lol but we will see what Spurrier does with it.

  2. #212
    Mighty Member Outburstz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    Sounds extremely exciting. Really can't wait!

    I'm not really sure I understand why mutants need a religion though?!?! lol but we will see what Spurrier does with it.
    Did you really just say this statement with the name Exodus as your user name?

  3. #213
    Astonishing Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    Did you really just say this statement with the name Exodus as your user name?
    No-one *needs* a religion. It's like how people are still confused when they ask what team I support, and I say none.

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    I'm not really sure I understand why mutants need a religion though?!?!
    I would guess it's because there is this trend or task for the writers of the current Krakoa status quo to take something physical or metaphysical from the corner stones of civilization and just slap the word "mutant" on it, in order to pretend this setting is actualy a real civilization and not just a maybe 4 year storyline in a super hero comic that will crumble to dust sooner or later, while the mirror images from the real world or popular mythology will remain.

    So it's mutant technology, mutant magic, mutant music, mutant writing, mutant language, mutant teaching or learning, mutant medicine, mutant coffee, mutant performance art, etc.

    Which most of the time so far was just stuff lifted from real life and done by mutants involving either their powers or material from the magic super island Hickman has pulled out of his sleve via retcon (Krakoa itself is not a retcon of course).
    Mutant technology is just combining different powers for different effects something done in fantasy and super hero comics for ages, with the fastball special being even used as example despite being just a bigger super strong guy throwing a smaller guy at something.
    Mutant magic is just magic done by mutants and perhaps incorperating their super powers (Scarlet Witch says hi).
    Mutant language so far is just a fictional set of letters designed from random geometric shapes with no real historical or cultural references at it's origins and used to just write english words funnily (JRR Tolkien disaproves),

    The rest is basicly undefined but likely involving just mutants doing normal stuff and occasionaly using their super powers for it while being all smug about being better than normal humans now.

    And now we get the long hinted at "mutant religion", which i assume will just be "the world according to mutants" treated as universal fact by it's followers.

    All to convince the reader and pretend like this current status will last or build to something impressively, while it will just remain chained down by it's connection to the larger super hero franchise of the marvel universe.

    Though Spurrier has a good track record of creating fictional worlds, their histories and inner workings, in order to pull the reader in and make them feel like witnissing said world in a believable way. Godshaper, the Spire, Motherland, all good reads involving brief visits in alien yet familiar worlds.

    So it might at least be a fun ride, even though i doubt the "mutant religion" concept will really hold up well to closer inspection and reflection (just like the mutant metaphor in general) or survive past the Krakoa status quo.

  5. #215
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    I'm not really sure I understand why mutants need a religion though?!?! lol but we will see what Spurrier does with it.
    Considering all the strange things the X-men went through during their history, I suppose it’s enough to shake some beliefs on a spiritual level… How many times, the X-men died and came back fresh and anew…

    But, of course, this “mutant religion” is there to sever ties with humanity… which is funny because religion is a very human thing, that always was there whatever the civilization. Poor humans that never raise from the dead… They indeed need a religion.
    “Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe

  6. #216
    Astonishing Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    I would guess it's because there is this trend or task for the writers of the current Krakoa status quo to take something physical or metaphysical from the corner stones of civilization and just slap the word "mutant" on it, in order to pretend this setting is actualy a real civilization and not just a maybe 4 year storyline in a super hero comic that will crumble to dust sooner or later, while the mirror images from the real world or popular mythology will remain.

    So it's mutant technology, mutant magic, mutant music, mutant writing, mutant language, mutant teaching or learning, mutant medicine, mutant coffee, mutant performance art, etc.

    Which most of the time so far was just stuff lifted from real life and done by mutants involving either their powers or material from the magic super island Hickman has pulled out of his sleve via retcon (Krakoa itself is not a retcon of course).
    Mutant technology is just combining different powers for different effects something done in fantasy and super hero comics for ages, with the fastball special being even used as example despite being just a bigger super strong guy throwing a smaller guy at something.
    Mutant magic is just magic done by mutants and perhaps incorperating their super powers (Scarlet Witch says hi).
    Mutant language so far is just a fictional set of letters designed from random geometric shapes with no real historical or cultural references at it's origins and used to just write english words funnily (JRR Tolkien disaproves),

    The rest is basicly undefined but likely involving just mutants doing normal stuff and occasionaly using their super powers for it while being all smug about being better than normal humans now.

    And now we get the long hinted at "mutant religion", which i assume will just be "the world according to mutants" treated as universal fact by it's followers.

    All to convince the reader and pretend like this current status will last or build to something impressively, while it will just remain chained down by it's connection to the larger super hero franchise of the marvel universe.

    Though Spurrier has a good track record of creating fictional worlds, their histories and inner workings, in order to pull the reader in and make them feel like witnissing said world in a believable way. Godshaper, the Spire, Motherland, all good reads involving brief visits in alien yet familiar worlds.

    So it might at least be a fun ride, even though i doubt the "mutant religion" concept will really hold up well to closer inspection and reflection (just like the mutant metaphor in general) or survive past the Krakoa status quo.
    This seems a little cynical lol. At this point I’m not convinced that the Krakoan status quo (or at least aspects of it) is going to fully go away since Hickman is letting other writers develop all of these concepts. I doubt Hickman would end his run by wiping out everything the entire X-office has been working on for years.

  7. #217
    Astonishing Member ChronoRogue's Avatar
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    Yea I'm not going to make any guesses how long Krakoa is going to last.

    I thought Decimation would get rectonn'ed in like two years but it lasted 10+ so....

  8. #218

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    I’ll bold and say I give Krakoa 2 or 3 years, maybe 4, before Marvel decides to pull the plug on it. Though hopefully Kurt establishes a new school of thought for mutants and their new found immortality
    Last edited by Covetous_One; 01-23-2021 at 08:18 AM.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    This seems a little cynical lol. At this point I’m not convinced that the Krakoan status quo (or at least aspects of it) is going to fully go away since Hickman is letting other writers develop all of these concepts. I doubt Hickman would end his run by wiping out everything the entire X-office has been working on for years.
    I admit i have a more cynical outlook towards this current setup.

    Partialy because i've followed the comicbook industry for a while and know that especialy super hero comics franchises like this are in a vicious cycle where things largely constantly go back to a base status quo, with only a few things getting carried along.
    Which makes me aware of how concepts introduced by one writer will often just be ignored or downright destroyed by the next, who will then try to introduce their new (in their eyes) revolutionary take on it or downright want to go back to the status quo they knew of the characters and teams.

    And partialy because for long lasting super hero comic franchises, public perception and image is king and the general audience that isn't reading the comics has an image and idea of the X-men, that does not include or reflect what is currently in the comics.
    This whole thing requires 50 real world years of constant missery storylines in order to function and even then it required a massive retcon to be introduced so suddently. 50 years missing from the consciousness of the general audience, who only get the "best bits" kind of informations. But it's said general audience image which is also vital in dictacting what is the accepted status quo of long established heros and teams.
    An image that can expanded upon, but not broken and this current setup feels close to a break to me.

    It doesn't help that for me who is aware of the decades of X-men history, who understands where this current situation is comming from and how it works, it all doesn't seem that revolutionary because i've seen the concepts before in some way or another. Not that there is something wrong with repeating existing concepts or expanding on them. But it should feel like being worth exploring or having a chance to last. Which i don't feel here.

    To me this whole thing is a exercise in futility, trying to present a high brow concept with a frame work unsuited to ever properly explore it, as it's both tied down by a status quo that will snap it back into shape and being part of a larger super hero universe which also limits the scope of what is told, can be told and what can be achieved.

    This concept would require a creator owned all new universe to function and be explored properly in a way that could at least suggest for it to last. But with an established franchise like the X-men it's a little sidetrack at best. A holiday in an exotic place for a while, before the it's back to the old place, which has been left to rot and collect dust while away.

    And that's where i get my cynic outlook from. Instead of actualy finaly improving the status quo towards something which isn't just one extermination storyline after the other and a bleak overall presentation humanity as a collective society (something comic fans might want to get AWAY from by reading books about spandex clad heros with super powers i would assume), a bad trend spiraled out of controll since the Morrison run, it's just doubeling down on everything.
    Humanity stands there even more ruinous than before (and i consider mutants part of humanity period), the outlooks is bleaker than ever with the idea that "everything goes always wrong for mutants" being cemented now as unavoidable future and the next big downfall of the X-men is just a few years away.
    Because Moira changing the timeline or not, the goal the mutants have currently is impossible to achieve in the main comic continuity, compared to at least having a status quo where the goals of the heros feel achievable in some way.

    It's an impressive and mighty looking castle, wished into existance from nothing by a new god, but it stands on weak foundation of sand and the waves are allready visible on the horizon. Soon it will crumble and leave nothing but fancy looking pieces half burried in the sand *insert Ozymindias references here*. While the old castle stands beside it still ruined from years of abuse, but with a strong foundation that will last.

    But as long as you take something and slap the word "mutant" on it and pretend it's something new and exciting, it's suddently so much more interesting and complex which makes the entire looming bleakness acceptable?

    Again, at least with Si Spurrier we get a writer with a lot of experience in setting up fictional societies and exploring them, so it will at least be an interesting read. But that doesn't change my perception that the whole current trend "X + Mutant" of these writers will lead to anything lasting or add anything to their mythos. Since it all just happens in a setup doomed from the start.
    Because it's not a look at how these mutants behave as part of a fictional reflection of our world, but just how they behave in this alien and weird world Hickman created for them, with a reflection of our world on the sideline.

    Spurrier's world building skills work best in his own works, which he can leave behind after his stories are done, leaving the future of said worlds in the imaginations of his readers (Godshaper especialy does that). But here he is working with a franchise that will go on, past his stories and if they break too much out of a mold they will be ignored. Just look at how nothing from his Legecay or X-force run remained or were adressed again.

    But your perception here stands against mine and i do not believe in mine to be absolutely right. So while yes i'm a cynic towards this whole current direction, i appriciate such optimism towards it's lasting and potentialy positive impact on the X-men franchise.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoRogue View Post
    Yea I'm not going to make any guesses how long Krakoa is going to last.

    I thought Decimation would get rectonn'ed in like two years but it lasted 10+ so....
    Decimiation was the result of a determinded editor in chief demanding it to last and not be reversed, because it was one of his personal projects and once he was gone another person in charge wanted it's effect to last, this time over trying to sabotage for movie rights.
    Last edited by Grunty; 01-23-2021 at 09:41 AM.

  10. #220
    Y'know. Pav's Avatar
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    This might be the perfect X-book for me.

    Nightcrawler as the star?
    Spurrier as the writer?
    Daily life and culture on Krakoa as the focus?
    Philosophical?
    Psychedelic?

    YES PLEASE.

    If Legion plays a role, I will be beyond overjoyed.


    Can't wait to read it.

    -Pav, who wants Ewing and Spurrier to take over if and when Hickman decides he's done...
    You were Spider-Man then. You and Peter had agreed on it. But he came back right when you started feeling comfortable.
    You know what it means when he comes back
    .

    "You're not the better one, Peter. You're just older."
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  11. #221
    Astonishing Member darewithpeace's Avatar
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    i love to see nightcrawler and blink
    we can be heroes, just for one day

  12. #222
    Astonishing Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    I guess this will touch on Nightcrawler making his mutant religion. I wonder what his tenets are going to be.
    Would it really matter? I mean i feel like it will also end up being corrupted like the QC, only it will be worse because Kurt is going to end up being directly hurt by it and he is really a good guy who has had a lot done to him.

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    Would it really matter? I mean i feel like it will also end up being corrupted like the QC, only it will be worse because Kurt is going to end up being directly hurt by it and he is really a good guy who has had a lot done to him.
    How is the QC corrupted?

  14. #224
    Incredible Member Proxy's Avatar
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    Mutant Monday about Jean and Scott bring up the subject of babies.
    Delving into the whole 'make more mutants' thing is confirmed in Way of X. I wonder if they will dare having a well know character be a new parent.

    https://aiptcomics.com/2021/02/08/x-...and-jean-grey/

  15. #225
    Astonishing Member Su_Whisterfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proxy View Post
    Mutant Monday about Jean and Scott bring up the subject of babies.
    Delving into the whole 'make more mutants' thing is confirmed in Way of X. I wonder if they will dare having a well know character be a new parent.

    https://aiptcomics.com/2021/02/08/x-...and-jean-grey/
    Hm, possibly, Spurrier said all three of the laws would be examined. He wants to call the Make More Mutants issue the Joy of X, I hope they let him!
    I also hope he doesn’t make Kurt, one of the more sensual Xmen, prudish.

    “In this new world, there are no limits and nothing is quite the same as it was in the homo sapiens' world," Spurrier continued. "The old codes and morals don’t apply in quite the same way. The erasure of mortality, the commonality of possessions, the mitigation of sickness - when you start from that position, you quickly realize a lot of the laws and commandments that guide the Western world don’t entirely fit anymore. What Kurt takes to be instinctively wrong often isn’t. Or at least, can't be rationally described as such. That’s a problem because it turns out there really is something desperately ugly lurking under the surface. The emerging culture of 'anything goes' makes it extraordinarily difficult to find and fight."

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