Swamp Thing vs Rachel Grey

[Jcogginsa]

The avatar of the Green takes on the daughter of Scott Summers and Jean Grey.

This battle will be done a couple of different ways

1. Current versions of both.

2. Peak Swamp Thing vs peak Rachel Grey

3. Swamp Thing with only feats from the Alan Moore run vs Rachel Grey with only feats from the Claremont run

Bonus: They sit and talk

[big_adventure]

I couldn't tell you for current.

Peak Rachel was the full-on Phoenix host, and had more-or-less the best feats (not biggest, but best) of any of them. Matter, energy and light reality manipulation, massive psi powers, teleportation, dimensional travel, time travel, etc., ought to let her get a 10 count if not an outright defeat.

Actually, "peak" Rachel is higher still, because the PR Beyonder gave her power enough to kill... the PR Beyonder. And that was during Claremont's run on X-Men - it happened in a SWII crossover to X-Men. Granted, her feats in the issue are not all that outlandish (she wasted a bunch of future Sentinels of the type that killed Franklin Richards and all of the other mutants in Rachel's dystopian origin Earth), but the power was apparently there.

So I don't know about today, but peak and original run would favor the mutant.

[Slade1]

I couldn't tell you for current.

Peak Rachel was the full-on Phoenix host, and had more-or-less the best feats (not biggest, but best) of any of them. Matter, energy and light reality manipulation, massive psi powers, teleportation, dimensional travel, time travel, etc., ought to let her get a 10 count if not an outright defeat.

Actually, "peak" Rachel is higher still, because the PR Beyonder gave her power enough to kill... the PR Beyonder. And that was during Claremont's run on X-Men - it happened in a SWII crossover to X-Men. Granted, her feats in the issue are not all that outlandish (she wasted a bunch of future Sentinels of the type that killed Franklin Richards and all of the other mutants in Rachel's dystopian origin Earth), but the power was apparently there.

So I don't know about today, but peak and original run would favor the mutant.

The PR Beyonder stuff was, well, retconned, so isn't canon.

[big_adventure]

The PR Beyonder stuff was, well, retconned, so isn't canon.

Eh, it's been retconned in multiple directions so many times that I'm not sure where it stands now. In any case, OP asked for strongest versions within the time periods listed. As of the end of the Claremont run, that stuff had yet to be retconned I believe?

[Sophicles]

Rachel is pretty consistently incompetent. She's been owned by Exodus, Emma Frost, Cassandra Nova, Selene, etc. And these days I don't believe she has any echo left of the Phoenix Force. Swamp Thing likely wins through attrition. I doubt she can permanently rid the entire planet of all flora... including her own gut flora. Swamp Thing's consciousness will always exist as an avatar of the Green, regardless of what she does to any of his bodies.

[The Drunkard Kid]

How well is that consciousness protected against telepathy from someone who, at their peak, was at least a cosmic-tier telepath and embodiment of life who is a peer of Galactus (and will eventually fuse with him to become the Cosmic Egg from which the next universe is born)?

Now that I think about it, how powerful is her telepathy/telekinesis without the Phoenix Force? I remember Nimrod not being particularly stalled by it in his first appearance, but that version of Nimrod was also physically demolishing the Juggernaut with ease and she didn't do more than step a bunch of girders on him, IIRC.

[Jcogginsa]

Eh, it's been retconned in multiple directions so many times that I'm not sure where it stands now. In any case, OP asked for strongest versions within the time periods listed. As of the end of the Claremont run, that stuff had yet to be retconned I believe?

Note, the numbered fights are all seperate fights. So "Peak Rachel" and "Only Claremont Rachel" are not concurrent modifyers. So for that fight, she wouldn't have the beyonder power up, since it was a one off. But she would have the Phoenix Force, since she had that for most of Claremont's run

[big_adventure]

How well is that consciousness protected against telepathy from someone who, at their peak, was at least a cosmic-tier telepath and embodiment of life who is a peer of Galactus (and will eventually fuse with him to become the Cosmic Egg from which the next universe is born)?

Now that I think about it, how powerful is her telepathy/telekinesis without the Phoenix Force? I remember Nimrod not being particularly stalled by it in his first appearance, but that version of Nimrod was also physically demolishing the Juggernaut with ease and she didn't do more than step a bunch of girders on him, IIRC.

Unfortunately, Claremont didn't exactly write for consistency on Rumbles. :-)

Nimrod was insanely powerful in his early appearance, as you mention, he obliterated Juggy physically and owned an entire team of X-Men basically simultaneously. Rachel couldn't do much, but then, stopping him there took Rogue absorbing the rest of the unconscious X-Men's abilities, then using her durability combined with Piotr's to use Nightcrawler's teleportation to disarm (heh. heh.) the robot. Nimrod also specifically notes that he's got explicit defenses against her, having faced her before in the screwed-up timeline.

Rachel was, however, already capable of time travel and matter manipulation through TK, and was noted as being more powerful than Frost and Selene though less skilled.

Early on, she was also very broken mentally and emotionally: she saw everyone she loved killed in front of her face, and many of them were her fault, as she was the hound who found them while Ahab was pulling her strings. Many of her failures are traceable to that: she'd drop almost catatonic when she remembered her hound days.

[big_adventure]

Note, the numbered fights are all seperate fights. So "Peak Rachel" and "Only Claremont Rachel" are not concurrent modifyers. So for that fight, she wouldn't have the beyonder power up, since it was a one off. But she would have the Phoenix Force, since she had that for most of Claremont's run

I realize that. Peak would actually be both if it's allowed, she had the Phoneix in the Beyonder Pack upgrade, though it doesn't matter, as the Phoenix alone is enough to do the job, I'd think.