What Should Marvel Do About The Punisher at This Point?

[babyblob]

To be honest Frank never really worked as a character in the Marvel universe. Yes granted it is comics and all that so disbelief is needed. But in a world full of heroes who value human life so much that they want even the average citizen held accountable for even accidental deaths they have no problem teaming up with a man who has murdered hundreds and hundreds of people. (Its okay because when he hung with Spidey he used rubber bullets

In Civil War he murdered a couple villains in plain view of Captain America and other heroes, yet these group of masked crime fighters who were in a war to defend civil rights and all of that did not turn a man in for executing two people unarmed people who were just standing there. Yes Captain America beat him up but he was not held legally accountable.

Punisher really only works in the Max series where there are no other heroes.

[charliehustle415]

Honestly I think they should show his logical end: death.

I mean he is the most unlike the other superheroes in both demeanor and behavior.

Just get Ennis or some other cynic and write a five issue mini where he gets gunned down by some low-level thug.

[evolutionaryFan]

To be honest Frank never really worked as a character in the Marvel universe. Yes granted it is comics and all that so disbelief is needed. But in a world full of heroes who value human life so much that they want even the average citizen held accountable for even accidental deaths they have no problem teaming up with a man who has murdered hundreds and hundreds of people. (Its okay because when he hung with Spidey he used rubber bullets

In Civil War he murdered a couple villains in plain view of Captain America and other heroes, yet these group of masked crime fighters who were in a war to defend civil rights and all of that did not turn a man in for executing two people unarmed people who were just standing there. Yes Captain America beat him up but he was not held legally accountable.

Punisher really only works in the Max series where there are no other heroes.

Personally I think Wolverine is a lot worse than the Punisher. Punisher just kills... and kills quickly. Wolverine is sadistic. See what he did to Matsuo.

There are a lot of sick characters in Marvel. I don't think Punisher is the worst.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Personally I think Wolverine is a lot worse than the Punisher. Punisher just kills... and kills quickly. Wolverine is sadistic. See what he did to Matsuo.

There are a lot of sick characters in Marvel. I don't think Punisher is the worst.

Punisher has blood on his hands, and he should be making far more mistakes in killing innocent people than he does. But, like the Hulk, this is waved away because if he was written more realistically every super-hero he met would spent more effort arresting him and he'd be in a jail cell within an hour if Iron Man wanted him there. Wolverine is also focused on specific targets who get in his path, Punisher goes after everyone - it's his purpose. Frank Castle died the day his family did.

[FFJamie94]

I think the problem here is that no matter what you do, the damage is already done. By shelving the character, the People who use the symbol will still continue to use it. Having stories where the Punisher goes after the Proud Boys will still just make folks from the PB declare that as not their punisher and decry it from their canon.
It’s the same issue with a character like Rorschach, he was made with the intention of being a parody of that kind of character. Now luckily Rorschach isn’t as damaging to real world society as the Punisher.

So here’s my solution, make a film about Frank going after hate groups, set it after the TV show so you have an established character being the one to do it.
In the comics, focus on the Punisher alternatives like Cosmic Ghost Rider.
Have Frank be a side character for the street heroes. If he is wanted in Daredevil, give him a couple of issues in there.
Don’t give him a mini or an on-going for the next few years.
Stop production on any official merch and crack down in bootlegs.
Open up a number of lawsuits due to both copyright and brand damage.
Finally, once it’s all be settled, in a few years give someone who’ll be able to write a good political and social drama into the Punisher. Release it for the time of the movie so they both have the opportunity to send the same message and clear up the brand’s image.

[DrNewGod]

There's no good answer to this.

Kill Castle and have him bless a black, trans SJW successor? The Trumpsters will cite it as a reason they have to fight, to prevent UnAmericans from corrupting our values.

Sue the pants off people for trademark infringement? The Trumpsters will call it 1st Amendment Suppression and say it's why we gotta fight.

Have Castle beat the **** out of Proud Boys? The Trumpsters will roar that's The Elites Deep Faking us.

No, the only way to get Marvel clear of this is to shut The Punisher down. Ban projects for him. Shut down access to every title of his, let him be this whacko that shows up in other titles (online back issues, ban future use). Pull the movies, including Netflix. Let him wither.

Which won't happen b/c 1st Amendment, and (far more importantly) $$$$.

[FFJamie94]

There's no good answer to this.

Kill Castle and have him bless a black, trans SJW successor? The Trumpsters will cite it as a reason they have to fight, to prevent UnAmericans from corrupting our values.

Sue the pants off people for trademark infringement? The Trumpsters will call it 1st Amendment Suppression and say it's why we gotta fight.

Have Castle beat the **** out of Proud Boys? The Trumpsters will roar that's The Elites Deep Faking us.

No, the only way to get Marvel clear of this is to shut The Punisher down. Ban projects for him. Shut down access to every title of his, let him be this whacko that shows up in other titles (online back issues, ban future use). Pull the movies, including Netflix. Let him wither.

Which won't happen b/c 1st Amendment, and (far more importantly) $$$$.

The problem with that is it’s not a solution, but an avoidance. It’s not going to make the problem go away, instead it’s the equivalent to sticking your fingers in your ears and closing your eyes and pretending the problem doesn’t exist.

[Alpha]

I've never actually read Punishet comics and I'm not a big fan of him although I did like some of thr live action appearances, but what makes people think Frank isn't a Trump Supporter? In my view the solution would be what someone here mentioned, show that his whole mission is very delusional.

[FFJamie94]

I've never actually read Punishet comics and I'm not a big fan of him although I did like some of thr live action appearances, but what makes people think Frank isn't a Trump Supporter? In my view the solution would be what someone here mentioned, show that his whole mission is very delusional.

I don’t think Frank particularly cares about Trump either way. However, he is a massive fan of Captain America. So if Cap was against Trump, Frank would be too.
The problem also is, the comics do at times show that Frank is deluded. During Civil War, he was kicked out of the anti registration side for straight up killing some super villains who were willing to help them out.
After civil war he went around calling himself captain America believing he should be Steve’s replacement.

Most heroes don’t want to work with him because they see him as no better than the People he kills. Among the hero community, the Punisher is seen as more of a joke.

However, his ideals are that of a libertarian warrior, and he wants to protect the ideals of what he sees America as. So seeing white supremacy gets to him, because that goes against what he believes.

[JudicatorPrime]

Sue the pants off people for trademark infringement? The Trumpsters will call it 1st Amendment Suppression and say it's why we gotta fight.

Except the 1st Amendment doesn't entitle anyone to appropriate someone else's IP. No one is saying they can't create their own version of a skull or death mask. By all means, please do. We're just saying don't use Marvel's. If you do, there should be consequences for it. Individuals are empowered to protect their own rights and property. That's a bedrock principle of our rights and freedoms, too. I'm pretty sure Marvel/Disney has in-house counsel that can draft a letter in a matter of minutes and distribute it to the appropriate parties. Like I said, the threat of a suit is usually more than sufficient, unless the encroaching group has extremely deep pockets and they want to take a stroll down the primrose path to insolvency and destitution, which I strongly doubt. Marvel also needs to do this publicly, so that there can be no doubt that they do not in anyway support these groups. In the cancel culture climate that we're in, that perception could be a detriment to their bottom line.

As for the Punisher character, don't change a thing. Don't change his emblem and don't hide him away in limbo. Keep him front and center. If he has a book coming out, publish it. The Punisher existed long before Trumpism existed. The character is probably older than the people who were wearing his symbol. The public needs to know that. I mean it's not like McDonald's is going to change anything if some maniac goes out and whacks a few dozen people wearing a t-shirt depicting the golden arches.

[JudicatorPrime]

I've never actually read Punishet comics and I'm not a big fan of him although I did like some of thr live action appearances, but what makes people think Frank isn't a Trump Supporter? In my view the solution would be what someone here mentioned, show that his whole mission is very delusional.

Trump has been described as morally bankrupt and a "wannabe gangster" by several people who have known him over the years. Whatever their political views, it's a safe bet the Punisher wouldn't support Trump. If anything, Trump represents the kind of character profile that Frank Castle would target.

And maybe there's your plot for a future story, although it could be irresponsible on many levels, if not properly handled. Heck, get the Ghost Rider in on it, too. A good cop -- maybe an old friend of Frank's -- dies and the people responsible for his death need to be brought to account. Only they find out the responsible parties are untouchable because of their elevated positions ...or so they think.

On second thought, never mind. Stories like that are a dime a dozen where the Punisher and Ghost Rider are concerned.

[Username taken]

It’s an interesting discussion to say the least with no easy answers.

But as others have pointed out, a starting point would be for Marvel/Disney to issue cease and desist orders at those appropriating the sign. And at the same time issue a statement about the company’s values or whatever.

Disney is very quick to shut people for innocuous use of their imagery but when their creators or employees are attacked and harassed by the alt-right or their imagery appropriated by loons, they keep suspiciously silent. Unfortunately, it’s this attitude that’s basically led to the reinforcement of white supremacy and conspiracy theory fueled groups in society and allows stuff like the alt-right harass their (Marvel/Disney) creators to no end.

[Anthony W]

As for the Punisher character, don't change a thing. Don't change his emblem and don't hide him away in limbo. Keep him front and center. If he has a book coming out, publish it. The Punisher existed long before Trumpism existed. The character is probably older than the people who were wearing his symbol.

Exactly, go back a few decades and people like this would be emulating Dirty Harry or Rambo. It's just a fad, all Marvel has to do is wait it out and ignore the "We have to do SOMETHING!" crowd that is mostly on Twitter and pop culture sites. They will find another character, they always do. The pop culture sites and Twitter will find a new nontroversy

[Citizen Kane]

When did it become progressive to censor art or even history? Leave Frank Castle alone and let him do his thing.

[Username taken]

When did it become progressive to censor art or even history? Leave Frank Castle alone and let him do his thing.

Is the government shutting down The Punisher?

This isn't a discussion that even remotely related to censorship.