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  1. #106
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    Have the character as is Frank go after the Proud Boys I said was an amazing idea. To me it would show him taking back the symbol. And while I would enjoy reading that story more on some level then I enjoy him now. I would still say his methods are not right. I did enjoy his older stories and still on some level do. But I dont and never have agreed with his way being right. i enjoy the Death Wish movies but what bronson's character did in those was a crime. so while I would enjoy seeing him go after proud boys it would not be any more right then what he is doing now.
    You can't say Frank's actions are bad and He should go after this other group instead in the same paragraph.
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  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooFlyToFail View Post
    That makes no sense. He represents brutal vigilante justice, without impunity. It could be your first day on the job, and you're reconsidering, but it doesn't matter. He'll slaughter you all the same.

    Him going after bad actors in a comic doesn't change the fact that he's a psychopath, and shouldn't be a symbol for anything.

    Making him a symbol of any movement or people means you're taking his insane ideology. It doesn't matter where your values lie, his symbol corrupts it, exposes your ignorance to use such a symbol or reveals your actual intentions.
    This is a good point especially the bolded.
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  3. #108
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    They can't do anything, idiots are always going hijack symbols because they look cool. I believe Punisher has already explained the difference between him and cops on panel before but those people don't actually read his comics so they wouldn't know. They just see a badass white dude with guns.
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  4. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The Punisher: War-Zone movie had Frank accidentally killing an undercover FBI agent.



    What makes you think we are? Marvel and DC have tons of stories tearing down antiheroes and the Punisher is no exception.

    Anyone remember this scenes from Joss Whedon's Runaways run?







    Whedon has even referred to the Punisher as a coward and a fascist. Over on DC, you've got antiheroes like Red Hood and Ghostmaker being treated like pariahs at best, villains at worst. Even heroes who happen to kill like Wonder Woman will get shade thrown at them by the likes of Geoff Johns.
    portrayals of Frank, like this, I consider idiotic. Whedon can't stay banished long enough.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackClaw View Post
    Itís super unfortunate that this character has been hijacked by hate groups and dirty cops. I wouldnít want Frank gone entirely but there are a couple of options Marvel can do. The first is to simply keep him around but relegate him to guest appearances only. The second is to simply retire his logo.

    But I think the boldest option is to keep him around but do a story where Frank specifically goes after hate groups like the Proud Boys and the alt right. That Marvel can tell the world that the Punisher is here to stay and he has absolute ZERO tolerance for these scumbags and that they are not on the same side in any shape or form. Itíll be controversial to the groups I mentioned and those who sympathize with them. But with Trump getting banned from almost every major platform online and Parler getting dropped by both google and Apple, I think itís safe to say that people are caring less and less about what these people think.
    Ohh I love this idea, I'm on board.
    Reading List (Super behind but reading them nontheless):
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  6. #111
    Astonishing Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    You can't say Frank's actions are bad and He should go after this other group instead in the same paragraph.
    I agree my post is all over the place. I do admit that I would like to see him go after the proud Boys. I dont like that group and it would be fun to read them getting taken to task. . I also know that murdering members of a group is not right and is an extreme just on the other end. And it would not make him or anyone who does this in any way justified. I under stand it is a lesson in Hypocrisy.
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  7. #112
    Astonishing Member TooFlyToFail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I agree my post is all over the place. I do admit that I would like to see him go after the proud Boys. I dont like that group and it would be fun to read them getting taken to task. . I also know that murdering members of a group is not right and is an extreme just on the other end. And it would not make him or anyone who does this in any way justified. I under stand it is a lesson in Hypocrisy.
    It's really just that Proud Boys are a group of fratboy Conservatives, that hardly do anything illegal or dangerous. They're annoying at times, yes, but that's not a crime.

    I think it'd be more productive and make for a better story if we got a comic where Frank did what he does, but there were actual consequences and complications. Also, have his antagonists be nuanced and sympathetic to various degrees. It'd be best to explore why such a character is an issue.

    "Punisher vs The Klan, Jerks, People that disagree with me, or Whatever" doesn't help the conversation. It only would flip the script in the opposite direction.

  8. #113

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    The punisher logo is basically just a stylized skull without a jaw. Can marvel even copyright such a generic logo? The bad kid from toy story wore basically the same thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by TooFlyToFail View Post
    It's really just that Proud Boys are a group of fratboy Conservatives, that hardly do anything illegal or dangerous. They're annoying at times, yes, but that's not a crime.

    I think it'd be more productive and make for a better story if we got a comic where Frank did what he does, but there were actual consequences and complications. Also, have his antagonists be nuanced and sympathetic to various degrees. It'd be best to explore why such a character is an issue.

    "Punisher vs The Klan, Jerks, People that disagree with me, or Whatever" doesn't help the conversation. It only would flip the script in the opposite direction.
    proud boys are cop killing domestic terrorists.
    Last edited by OpaqueGiraffe17; 01-11-2021 at 12:05 PM.

  9. #114
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    The punisher logo is basically just a stylized skull without a jaw. Can marvel even copyright such a generic logo?

    proud boys are cop killing domestic terrorists.
    You probably could. BLEACH and One Piece uses skull imagery and I think those are copyrighted.

    Are you talking about this?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_boogaloo_killings
    "Cable was right!"

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbus View Post
    This is what I would do if in charge of Marvel.
    Sure, letís show that the way to deal with violent extremists without respect for the law is with extreme violence without any respect for the law, it will show for sure they have no right to feel a connection with the character.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen Kane View Post
    I disagree. Several suggestions in this thread are very blatantly calling for the character to either be banned or completely changed, falling quite comfortably into the realm of censorship, considering their reasonings for the changes. It's quite literally a censorship of a version of the character, even if you can still buy floppies or trades of those stories.

    If we'd rather not discuss this particular matter, that's fine, but I'll simply finish with, "I didn't start it".
    Do you consider the fact that there aren’t blackface shows anymore censorship? Or stereotypical representations of Asians as evil villains? That native Americans aren’t represent like they were in the lone ranger? The world changes and media adapts as usual.
    Last edited by PeterParked; 01-11-2021 at 12:26 PM.

  12. #117
    Astonishing Member TooFlyToFail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    The punisher logo is basically just a stylized skull without a jaw. Can marvel even copyright such a generic logo? The bad kid from toy story wore basically the same thing.

    proud boys are cop killing domestic terrorists.
    They could do specific designs, but the Punisher's logo is bland enough for others to redesign it.

    Since when?

  13. #118
    Astonishing Member TooFlyToFail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterParked View Post
    Do you consider the fact that there aren’t blackface shows anymore censorship? Or stereotypical representations of Asians as evil villains? That native Americans aren’t represent like they were in the lone ranger? The world changes and media adapts as usual.
    What does that have to do with the Punisher? Nothing about him is offensive or detrimental to society in the same wa5y as your examples.

  14. #119
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterParked View Post
    Do you consider the fact that there aren’t blackface shows anymore censorship? Or stereotypical representations of Asians as evil villains? That native Americans aren’t represent like they were in the lone ranger? The world changes and media adapts as usual.
    Editing already produced content due to modern sensibilities is censorship. Deciding not to put problematic content in future works isn't.
    "Cable was right!"

  15. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by TooFlyToFail View Post
    They could do specific designs, but the Punisher's logo is bland enough for others to redesign it.

    Since when?
    Maybe I'm just generalizing the proud boys and everyone else who went along with Trump's coup, I was refering to what happened to Brian Sicknick.

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