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  1. #121
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooFlyToFail View Post
    So now making the Punisher a black person, cranking up the SJW part, as you say, and now having her kill only white people (who are all conveniently corrupt or racist) is supposed to be better?

    So rather than empowering bad actor cops and ignorant people who like the logo, we should do the extreme opposite a empower their violent counterparts more? The Dallas sniper was a thing, you know.

    The Punisher shouldn't be a symbol for anything, good or bad.
    So first thing first who said anything about only killing white people. That is you imagining something my post/idea isn't trying to be. It isn't about trying to be "better". The concept of Punisher is about what I call a "serial killer" anybody picking up and doing what he does regardless of targets would have some of the same issues. No where I am saying this is to create a better punisher conceptwise Punisher is a sort of revenge power fantasy about a person who always gets the criminal regardless of the law. Punisher is a flawed concept this isn't about getting away from the flawed concept.

    Now with that said there is a danger in pretending the "otherside" is just as bad. So no I am not afraid of empowering some rogue vigilante person who thinks killing white supremacist or corrupt cops is okay BUT if we are talking about one having to happen by nature of character being around influencing the mentality of cops and soldiers to be more extreme and some random person to be more extreme I know which one is worse.

    But again this isn't something that serious fiction really doesn't have that much power this just trying to get a culture change about The Punisher and move Punisher to the same status in fiction as say Hannibal Lector or Joker. It is just about making the character thus symbol not appealing to certain groups that they would public wear the symbol. There is a reason why we aren't having this convo about the Joker but that said when the movie was released there some similar convos about the glorification of the Joker by some people. My suggestion of another character for Punisher was only to speed along the process of a culture change not make a better punisher other than the fact it would be discouraging military, police, and militia not to wear the symbol.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 01-11-2021 at 01:21 PM.

  2. #122
    Spectacular Member CaptainLiberty76's Avatar
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    What to do? Short answer: nothing. Superhero emblems have been appropriated by a wide variety of groups and individuals for decades. The Punisher is just the most recent in a very long line. Some may think that this is a special circumstance, but it is not. Sometimes the best thing to do is nothing and also just ignore the fools and don't give them any ground. People just need to grow up. Excelsior!

  3. #123
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    There's really nothing you can do from an in-universe perspective. It doesn't matter how heavily you go after something within the story; there will always be morons who miss the point and don't see past surface level details. We've been having variations of this same conversation every time you have some borderline fascist dirtbag professing to love Captain America or the "keep politics out of comics!" crowd who paradoxically claim to like the X-Men.

  4. #124
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    Marvel really can't do much to prevent people with questionable real life politics from identifying with the Punisher. And let's be realistic, many of those same folks like Capt America and Batman. Should Marvel/DC "do" something about this as well? Now, there is a discussion to be had about why characters like Punisher are popular in the first place but that's a different question...

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooFlyToFail View Post
    What does that have to do with the Punisher? Nothing about him is offensive or detrimental to society in the same wa5y as your examples.
    These are examples of things that society used to find entertaining until sensibilities changed and they weren’t anymore. The solitary guy that takes “justice” in his hand and solve issues killing right and left is just the next in line. The problem is not someone appropriating the punisher symbol, the problem is the punisher and who appropriated his symbol basically think the same way: they are in the right so they can go against the law because nobody else understand but them; if you think that the character is okay because he kills people that “deserves” it, you are misssing the point by several galaxies.

  6. #126
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    I kinda think it's more troubling when characters who were intended to be satires or criticisms of ultra violent heroes are misread by fans or creators and are taken unironically as the very thing they were mocking.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    I kinda think it's more troubling when characters who were intended to be satires or criticisms of ultra violent heroes are misread by fans or creators and are taken unironically as the very thing they were mocking.
    He brings something unique in a world full of superheroes. That's why he has staying power.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    He brings something unique in a world full of superheroes. That's why he has staying power.
    In that post I wasn't talking about Punisher. I was more referring to characters like Rorschach or Lobo.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    In that post I wasn't talking about Punisher. I was more referring to characters like Rorschach or Lobo.
    It still applies to them, unfortunately.

  10. #130
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Punisher wasn't even a satire of ultra-violent heroes since there weren't any when he was created. He was a villain turned anti-hero like Deadpool after him.
    "Cable was right!"

  11. #131
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    I keep forgetting. Has any Punisher Max comic came out since Disney bought Marvel?

  12. #132
    Comix Addict! Comics N' Toons's Avatar
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    Everyone talks about this problem on the domestic front, and cops adopting the Death's Head Skull is bad... because cops are not supposed to inherently "punish" right? Aren't they supposed to use Frank's justice as a last resort?

    2) You can't really expect anything less from a bunch of stump dumb right wing twats who spew nothing but evil anyway. That shouldnt really be a surprise.

    3) What about the thing nobody mentions? US ARMED FORCES abroad, adopting the Death's Head Skull to go out and knowingly and willingly kill citizens of the Middle East? Why is their EVIL not being addressed?

  13. #133
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    I keep forgetting. Has any Punisher Max comic came out since Disney bought Marvel?
    Punisher: The Platoon
    Punisher: Soviet

    Garth Ennis.
    "Cable was right!"

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    It still applies to them, unfortunately.
    I'm not sure what you mean in this context?

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    Punisher wasn't even a satire of ultra-violent heroes since there weren't any when he was created. He was a villain turned anti-hero like Deadpool after him.
    You're absolutely right. Part of what I was getting at is a lot of posts are claiming that that these "right wingers " don't understand Frank, but Frank has been portrayed as a "cool" character more often than not in the past 35 years. Conversely, there lots of comics fans out there who clearly don't get that Rorschach wasn't supposed to be a hero.

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