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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Default What Should Marvel Do About The Punisher at This Point?

    I love the character of Frank Castle. Punisher has been a long time favorite. But in light of how many bad police officers, hate groups like the Proud Boys have taken over his symbol and how many people on Wednesday were photographed wearing his symbol what should Marvel do with The Punisher at this point? Is this a character whose time has passed because of not only the change in times but because he has been corrupted by the far right and hate groups.

    Edit - I will give my thoughts. I think he is a character whose time has long since passed. He got really big in the shoot first ask questions later days of Charles Bronson Death Wish and Dirty Harry. But in todays age is it really a good ideal to glorify a mass murder who operates outside the wall. It was fun for a bit. And I still enjoy reading his older stuff. but the last few months I have been more and more uncomfortable with him. I hate that racists and dirty police and now the terrorists on the 6th have ruined a character I love by corrupting his symbol.

    Do you keep the Punisher and change the symbol? Or do you just retire him at this point and see that his time has passed?

    If the mods think this is too soon or too heated of a topic I am sorry and am fine with this being taken down.



    Please can we keep this civil
    Last edited by babyblob; 01-09-2021 at 06:38 PM.
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  2. #2

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    I think they pause him for a bit and have him return either directly addressing in-story those real life characters who have stolen his skull image, or as more of a villain.

  3. #3
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    It’s super unfortunate that this character has been hijacked by hate groups and dirty cops. I wouldn’t want Frank gone entirely but there are a couple of options Marvel can do. The first is to simply keep him around but relegate him to guest appearances only. The second is to simply retire his logo.

    But I think the boldest option is to keep him around but do a story where Frank specifically goes after hate groups like the Proud Boys and the alt right. That Marvel can tell the world that the Punisher is here to stay and he has absolute ZERO tolerance for these scumbags and that they are not on the same side in any shape or form. It’ll be controversial to the groups I mentioned and those who sympathize with them. But with Trump getting banned from almost every major platform online and Parler getting dropped by both google and Apple, I think it’s safe to say that people are caring less and less about what these people think.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackClaw View Post
    But I think the boldest option is to keep him around but do a story where Frank specifically goes after hate groups like the Proud Boys and the alt right. That Marvel can tell the world that the Punisher is here to stay and he has absolute ZERO tolerance for these scumbags and that they are not on the same side in any shape or form. It’ll be controversial to the groups I mentioned and those who sympathize with them. But with Trump getting banned from almost every major platform online and Parler getting dropped by both google and Apple, I think it’s safe to say that people are caring less and less about what these people think.
    This is what I would do if in charge of Marvel.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackClaw View Post
    It’s super unfortunate that this character has been hijacked by hate groups and dirty cops. I wouldn’t want Frank gone entirely but there are a couple of options Marvel can do. The first is to simply keep him around but relegate him to guest appearances only. The second is to simply retire his logo.

    But I think the boldest option is to keep him around but do a story where Frank specifically goes after hate groups like the Proud Boys and the alt right.
    As much as I hate bringing the real world into the world of comics... in this case, maybe this is the best solution. Do a story exactly about this... Punisher facing the groups who have hijacked his symbol. Make it clear what the Punisher actually stands for.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackClaw View Post

    But I think the boldest option is to keep him around but do a story where Frank specifically goes after hate groups like the Proud Boys and the alt right. That Marvel can tell the world that the Punisher is here to stay and he has absolute ZERO tolerance for these scumbags and that they are not on the same side in any shape or form. It’ll be controversial to the groups I mentioned and those who sympathize with them. But with Trump getting banned from almost every major platform online and Parler getting dropped by both google and Apple, I think it’s safe to say that people are caring less and less about what these people think.
    I never even thought of this. It is an amazing idea
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  7. #7
    "Emma is STILL right! Vegeta's Avatar
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    I don't think Marvel retiring the skull logo is going to prevent hate groups from co-opting it. Chances are they are already wearing unauthorized knock-off merchandise anyways.

    The book seems to be canceled and relaunched quite a bit. It wouldn't be a big deal if Marvel took a break from publishing his solo title and limited his exposure to guest appearances for the time being.
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  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    reminder marvel stoped a grieving father from having spider man on his child's tombstone, they can easly deal with the issue.

  9. #9
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    I can't stand the character but he is a symbol now to these groups and that idea can't be killed.

  10. #10
    Mighty Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the green death View Post
    I think they pause him for a bit and have him return either directly addressing in-story those real life characters who have stolen his skull image, or as more of a villain.
    ^This.

    10char

  11. #11
    Mighty Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackClaw View Post
    But I think the boldest option is to keep him around but do a story where Frank specifically goes after hate groups like the Proud Boys and the alt right. That Marvel can tell the world that the Punisher is here to stay and he has absolute ZERO tolerance for these scumbags and that they are not on the same side in any shape or form. It’ll be controversial to the groups I mentioned and those who sympathize with them. But with Trump getting banned from almost every major platform online and Parler getting dropped by both google and Apple, I think it’s safe to say that people are caring less and less about what these people think.
    I would read the hell out of that comic. Give us Frank's reaction to the take over of capitol hill.

  12. #12
    The Celestial Dragon Tien Long's Avatar
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    I hope Marvel addresses it in some way. I'm a big Punisher fan, always have been. Frank deals with those individuals who are the stone cold killers, the psychopaths, the rapists, the gangsters and mobsters who aren't 15 or 16 year old teens caught up in a system, but rather individuals who squandered chance after chance of leaving such a life and choose not to. Alright, you picked that path. Now you deal with Frank. It's that toughness, using force against evil that draws a lot of people to the Punisher, especially those in law enforcement and the military. These are the individuals who see on a daily basis the depravity of humanity, where talking it out doesn't work. At all. Here is an interesting article that came out when the first Punisher series premiered. (It also touches on what I will say in the second part of my post. Spoiler alert). It talked with several law enforcement and military personnel who explained why they liked the Punisher:

    https://www.vulture.com/article/marv...ry-fandom.html

    Some of the soldiers and police officers emphasized that they know that going as far as the Punisher goes is highly unrealistic. Going that far is really bad. Others feel that Punisher is badass. He motivated them to persevere through tough times. I understand that. So yes, I think that the Punisher still serves a purpose.


    BUT.....


    ....over these last few months, I've had to take a step back (we all have) and reevaluate the Punisher's methods (and every other street level hero as well. That's for another post). The world isn't that simple, it isn't good guys vs. bad guys. Inequality, stereotypes, systemic racism, and privileges, these are the things that cause a lot of crime and injustice in this world. And they're not solved by decking oneself out in badass body armor and rattling off an M-60. That type of force a hundred percent of the time is really, really bad. That is what makes the situation worse. Instead, recognizing and correcting racism, giving opportunities, helping the community, talking it out, these solve problems.

    That Vulture article has a few pages from couple of years ago, when the Punisher scolds some officers who are carrying his symbol on their car:





    And that brings us the the original post. I agree that for now Marvel should wait for matters to settle down a bit more. Then we could see Punisher dealing with those who use his symbol poorly like the alt-Right or the Proud Boys. I liked him to talk with those who use his symbol but still follow the law. Perhaps have him talk with community activists who ask him if his methods make a difference.

    Again, just some possible ideas.
    Last edited by Tien Long; 01-09-2021 at 10:30 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Garth Ennis on hate groups and police officers using the Punisher symbol

    "I’ve said this before a couple of times, but no one actually wants to be the Punisher," Ennis exclusively told SYFY WIRE. "Nobody wants to pull three tours of duty in a combat zone with the last one going catastrophically wrong, come home with a head full of broken glass, see their families machine-gunned into bloody offal in front of their eyes and then dedicate the rest of their lives to cold, bleak, heartless slaughter."

    "The people wearing the logo in this context are kidding themselves, just like the police officers who wore it over the summer," he added. "What they actually want is to wear an apparently scary symbol on a T-shirt, throw their weight around a bit, then go home to the wife and kids and resume everyday life. They've thought no harder about the Punisher symbol than the halfwits I saw [on Wednesday], the ones waving the Stars & Stripes while invading the Capitol building."
    https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/punish...-capitol-riots

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I
    Do you keep the Punisher and change the symbol? Or do you just retire him at this point and see that his time has passed?
    Changing the symbol or retiring the character would be the biggest mistake(s) Marvel could make.
    You don’t let a bunch of [expletive deleted] dictate your policy.

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Punisher is what people claim Captain Marvel is which a book that has to be restart again and again. And whose numbers always drop low enough to be canceled. So honestly Marvel can leave Punisher canceled if we are being honest because Punisher is property that does not work long term. Short term the character is amazing tho it is just punisher has level of repetition that wears people out after awhile and advancing the character in either direction vastly changes the character. So punisher can take a long break for awhile and they can refocus what they want Punisher to be in long term.

    So what to do with Punisher? Make Punisher into a thing that people wearing the symbol want nothing to do with. So basically rest the original punisher and make new character the Punisher something like an ex black ops black female turn vigilante who goes after Dirty cops, Proud Boys,White supremacist and corrupt Military types. Make the point of the Punisher to go after the things that celebrating him. Yes play up the SJW part and show the horrible parts of milta, cops and military complex. Take the fun out of character for these groups, Make so when they put on symbol someone ask them don't you feel weird wearing the symbol of character who kills police and soldiers. Punisher has always been more of an organized crime serial killer, switching it to a serial killer who picks on dirty cops and milta will do the trick.

    The more practical solution, Make the Punisher, The present day Ghost Rider and rest the character in a sense. Marvel sue bejeezus out Police and Military for their units wearing that symbol. The militia that wear the symbol you really can't do anything about it.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 01-10-2021 at 04:24 AM.

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