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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    I think everyone is overthinking this. If you don't want anyone in the real world to identify with Punisher, maybe start by taking away his real world replicant guns, knives, grenades, weapons and assorted paraphernalia? That will introduce an additional layer of fictionality between Punisher and the people who wish to emulate him.

    Would that ruin the character? For many of his fans, probably. But he wouldn't be the first character to have a truly fictional weapon, like Rom's neutralizer, or Starlord's pistol that fired one of the 4 basic elements instead of bullets.
    That doesn't make too much sense since he exists in a less fantastic part of the Marvel Universe. You would have to really up his artillery in order to make this work like giving him rocket launchers, stuff that the general public is less likely to acquire.

    It would make more sense to implement stricter gun laws in that case. Japan is more likely to have stuff like realistic guns despite them being forbidden by anyone but police.

  2. #197
    Spectacular Member Bad Witch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFJamie94 View Post
    I think the problem here is that no matter what you do, the damage is already done. By shelving the character, the People who use the symbol will still continue to use it. Having stories where the Punisher goes after the Proud Boys will still just make folks from the PB declare that as not their punisher and decry it from their canon.
    It’s the same issue with a character like Rorschach, he was made with the intention of being a parody of that kind of character. Now luckily Rorschach isn’t as damaging to real world society as the Punisher.

    So here’s my solution, make a film about Frank going after hate groups, set it after the TV show so you have an established character being the one to do it.
    In the comics, focus on the Punisher alternatives like Cosmic Ghost Rider.
    Have Frank be a side character for the street heroes. If he is wanted in Daredevil, give him a couple of issues in there.
    Don’t give him a mini or an on-going for the next few years.
    Stop production on any official merch and crack down in bootlegs.
    Open up a number of lawsuits due to both copyright and brand damage.
    Finally, once it’s all be settled, in a few years give someone who’ll be able to write a good political and social drama into the Punisher. Release it for the time of the movie so they both have the opportunity to send the same message and clear up the brand’s image.
    The biggest issue is that the proud boys are not a hate group. They're just a bunch of dumb asses responding to how far left the left has swung. I don't think anyone is afraid of them, at least not any intelligent group of people. The issue with all of these groups is when they clash with antifa. That's when we see violence. Another issue is the media does not frame both sides equally. They also haven't framed the capital protest and the protests of the summer equally. In my opinion both sides are equally stupid and are engaged in a " I know you are but what am i" battle and each side's media are lying about the other.

    Now when it comes to the punisher, having him go and smash proud boys is dumb because the way they have been portrayed in left wing corporate media isn't correct. All this will do for marvel is divide their reader base and is a sure fire way to tank their book. I'm not saying the proud boys are saints I'm just saying there is a tribalism happening that's out of control ( this thread being a great example of people being brainwashed by corporate media propaganda, it's amazing how well it works) If I'm a business and one side has appropriated a symbol I own it's best to just be quiet. Any movement will look like taking a side and will cost the company. Now should they take a moral stand? I don't know, not my call but staying quiet and keeping the punisher off the shelve is probably the best course of action and maybe they're just trying to wait out trump and hope a lot of these fringe groups quite down. (I don't think it will I expect it to get worse as the media is out of control, on both sides)

  3. #198
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    I didn't read the whole thread, and hope what I'm about to suggest isn't offensive.

    They could make Frank Castle queer, gay or bisexual. Not some alternate version or some what if scenario, but the main Frank. Marvel does this and a lot of the people that walks around with his symbol on the chest will stop.

  4. #199
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    That doesn't make too much sense since he exists in a less fantastic part of the Marvel Universe. You would have to really up his artillery in order to make this work like giving him rocket launchers, stuff that the general public is less likely to acquire.
    I'm not so sure about that. I mean we're talking about the same "fantastic part of the Marvel Universe" where one hero is blind with billy clubs; another uses shuriken; another still uses just a shield while his buddy has wings; another has sais; another a lariat/lasso/whip; another one a sword; another wrist stingers until they decided to give her guns, too; another has a bo staff; saw one that uses bow and arrows; seen another that uses escrima sticks and a skateboard; and then there's the endless slate of others who are basically unarmed living weapons. If Marvel wanted to, they could send Punisher out with just his skull boxers and a Tasmanian Devil Pez dispenser and he'd still be just as badass, if they wrote him that way. I'm not buying that Frank needs to be Heckler & Koch's unofficial poster child. But you are right, that is what fuels his fanbase and everyone else out to cosplay Punisher fantasies at the US Capitol after attending a mindless political rally.

  5. #200

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    make him older and into a suave secret-agent style assassin

  6. #201
    Astonishing Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    I didn't read the whole thread, and hope what I'm about to suggest isn't offensive.

    They could make Frank Castle queer, gay or bisexual. Not some alternate version or some what if scenario, but the main Frank. Marvel does this and a lot of the people that walks around with his symbol on the chest will stop.
    Castle is a character defined by two things- his never ending war on crime and losing his family. Giving him a serious romantic relationship, with someone from any gender, makes him essentially a different character. Is like many Tony Stark a technofobe.

  7. #202
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Castle is a character defined by two things- his never ending war on crime and losing his family. Giving him a serious romantic relationship, with someone from any gender, makes him essentially a different character. Is like many Tony Stark a technofobe.
    Yes, but it would also melt down a lot of those guys using his logo as a badge. It would be quite funny.

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    I didn't read the whole thread, and hope what I'm about to suggest isn't offensive.

    They could make Frank Castle queer, gay or bisexual. Not some alternate version or some what if scenario, but the main Frank. Marvel does this and a lot of the people that walks around with his symbol on the chest will stop.
    A few people have suggested similar things. There's already been female Punishers and they literally turned Frank into a black man for a story arc. Turning Frank gay would lose some fans, but not everyone who's problematic.

  9. #204
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    I didn't read the whole thread, and hope what I'm about to suggest isn't offensive.

    They could make Frank Castle queer, gay or bisexual. Not some alternate version or some what if scenario, but the main Frank. Marvel does this and a lot of the people that walks around with his symbol on the chest will stop.
    Yeah, that could work. Although I would feel a bit sorry for any legit Punisher fans because this would essentially destroy Castle's motivation (any romantic relationship would regardless of gender dynamic) but drastic times call for drastic measures.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  10. #205
    Amazing Member Fearless's Avatar
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    I'm someone that has been critical of the Punisher as a character when he's not written well and his stories feel like they're just gratuitous or glorifying violence. I think the best answer would be for Marvel editorial to be very careful about how he's depicted, because even at his worst the character doesn't reflect the values of domestic terrorists we've seen on the rise in America in the last year.

    I think changing his symbol might actually work but it's also like losing. It's effectively giving it to the people that use it. It's hard to say what could be done though because Marvel and DC both have wanted to sue the Proud Boys but can't really.

    The symbol being co-opted on a larger mainstream level would honestly be the best way to change public perception of it. If Marvel Studios did a Punisher movie or show and had say, Frank kill a cop that partook in police brutality reminiscent of things we've seen in recent years (which is absolutely in Frank's wheelhouse to do), it would drastically change the way people who have even taken the symbol upon themselves to use feel about it.

  11. #206
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    How is changing Punisher so he doesn't appeal so much to militants "giving in"? As others have suggested, having him go after homegrown extremists or felons pardoned by the "President" (aka Trump) are good ways to dampen his appeal to them as a symbol. That course of action is better than doing nothing or retiring the character in both cases his appeal to militant group remains intact. Heck, his appeal would likely increase if he's retired for obvious reasons.
    Those using the logo are probably not even reading the comics and know him through Netflix. Marvel shouldn't react at all because that would give even more attention to asshats not deserving it. Garth Ennis and Jon Bernthal have answered with videos and that's enough.

  12. #207
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    It should also be noted that it isn't just the Punisher that has found a fan base among these types of people. The January 6th insurrectionists were also wearing Captain America shirts. James Holmes, the Aurora theater shooter, was a Batman fan.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    A few people have suggested similar things. There's already been female Punishers and they literally turned Frank into a black man for a story arc. Turning Frank gay would lose some fans, but not everyone who's problematic.
    I think that turning Frank gay TO lose certain fans would be problematic and potentially offensive in and of itself.

  14. #209
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    I didn't read the whole thread, and hope what I'm about to suggest isn't offensive.

    They could make Frank Castle queer, gay or bisexual. Not some alternate version or some what if scenario, but the main Frank. Marvel does this and a lot of the people that walks around with his symbol on the chest will stop.
    Not offensive; just pointless.

    How does Frank's sexuality affect his crusade against the Mafia?
    "Cable was right!"

  15. #210
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    Those using the logo are probably not even reading the comics and know him through Netflix. Marvel shouldn't react at all because that would give even more attention to asshats not deserving it. Garth Ennis and Jon Bernthal have answered with videos and that's enough.
    You can't ignore a serious problem hoping it will go away.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

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