What Should Marvel Do About The Punisher at This Point?

[j9ac9k]

I love the character of Frank Castle. Punisher has been a long time favorite. But in light of how many bad police officers, hate groups like the Proud Boys have taken over his symbol and how many people on Wednesday were photographed wearing his symbol what should Marvel do with The Punisher at this point? Is this a character whose time has passed because of not only the change in times but because he has been corrupted by the far right and hate groups.

Edit - I will give my thoughts. I think he is a character whose time has long since passed. He got really big in the shoot first ask questions later days of Charles Bronson Death Wish and Dirty Harry. But in todays age is it really a good ideal to glorify a mass murder who operates outside the wall. It was fun for a bit. And I still enjoy reading his older stuff. but the last few months I have been more and more uncomfortable with him. I hate that racists and dirty police and now the terrorists on the 6th have ruined a character I love by corrupting his symbol.

Do you keep the Punisher and change the symbol? Or do you just retire him at this point and see that his time has passed?

Please can we keep this civil

I am not in favor of letting the bad guys win. It's like saying, "Let's never build tall buildings anymore" since 9/11. Let Frank be Frank but be more direct with the message. Either have him address these groups in a story where it's made clear and/or bring the Punisher back to where he started - as a bad guy. (Remove Frank's code of never killing cops for one since it was meant to give virtue to a murderer) Daredevil never lost sight of it, but the audience has. Frank is an unhinged serial murderer. Just stop glamorizing and justifying his actions in the books. It would be more valuable to explain in-story why he shouldn't be admired. He was always a tragic figure, but that's been lost over time as readers began to move towards his worldview.

I actually liked how he was depicted in Bendis's "Defenders" where Frank was seen as dangerous, but a psycho and was ultimately just a man with a gun and didn't stand a chance against someone powered like Luke.

[JackDaw]

I am not in favor of letting the bad guys win. It's like saying, "Let's never build tall buildings anymore" since 9/11. Let Frank be Frank but be more direct with the message. Either have him address these groups in a story where it's made clear and/or bring the Punisher back to where he started - as a bad guy. (Remove Frank's code of never killing cops for one since it was meant to give virtue to a murderer) Daredevil never lost sight of it, but the audience has. Frank is an unhinged serial murderer. Just stop glamorizing and justifying his actions in the books. It would be more valuable to explain in-story why he shouldn't be admired. He was always a tragic figure, but that's been lost over time as readers began to move towards his worldview.

I actually liked how he was depicted in Bendis's "Defenders" where Frank was seen as dangerous, but a psycho and was ultimately just a man with a gun and didn't stand a chance against someone powered like Luke.

But once you portray as a total psycho..everybody wonders why he’s not in jail double pronto, in a universe where ultra competent heros exist.

But I suppose it’s necessary to turn off part of the brain to enjoy Punisher stories? (I must admit I’ve enjoyed a ton of them...)

[Agent Z]

So, maybe Frank should be in a separate universe?

[evolutionaryFan]

But once you portray as a total psycho..everybody wonders why he’s not in jail double pronto, in a universe where ultra competent heros exist.

But I suppose it’s necessary to turn off part of the brain to enjoy Punisher stories? (I must admit I’ve enjoyed a ton of them...)

This holds for all superhero comics. Norman Osborn isn't in jail. Kingpin isn't in jail. Dr. Doom isn't in jail.

[The Cool Thatguy]

So, maybe Frank should be in a separate universe?

I don't see what that would change. He had his own 'verse in Max, after all.

I think they should just stop making him a right wing revenge fantasy that's never wrong. There are plenty of ways to do that without him killing an innocent person.

[Triniking1234]

But once you portray as a total psycho..everybody wonders why he’s not in jail double pronto, in a universe where ultra competent heros exist.

But I suppose it’s necessary to turn off part of the brain to enjoy Punisher stories? (I must admit I’ve enjoyed a ton of them...)

He was a total psycho since Conway introduced him. He's been in jail like many bad guys but he's always gets out cuz it's comic books.

I don't see what that would change. He had his own 'verse in Max, after all.

I think they should just stop making him a right wing revenge fantasy that's never wrong. There are plenty of ways to do that without him killing an innocent person.

Except he's not written as "a right wing revenge fantasy". Unless you think going after the mafia, drug dealers and human traffickers is "right-wing".

[JackDaw]

This holds for all superhero comics. Norman Osborn isn't in jail. Kingpin isn't in jail. Dr. Doom isn't in jail.

Yes..of course..a healthy dollop of “going along with the fun” is needed in all super hero stories.

But if you look at the three other characters you cite ....for all three there are slightly more “plausible” (lol) in universe reasons why they aren’t in jail.Dr Doom, for example, is head of a state, enjoys diplomatic immunity, has sorcerous powers, etc.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Except he's not written as "a right wing revenge fantasy". Unless you think going after the mafia, drug dealers and human traffickers is "right-wing".

He dispenses brutal justice with guns and violence, doing what the Justice System is too soft and polite to do and is never, ever wrong. He's Jack Bauer before we ever had 24

[j9ac9k]

He dispenses brutal justice with guns and violence, doing what the Justice System is too soft and polite to do and is never, ever wrong. He's Jack Bauer before we ever had 24

Jack Bauer worked for the government and did horrible stuff because there was an imminent threat. I see Punisher as more the "vigilante revenge fantasy when there is no law" a la "Deathwish."

[The Cool Thatguy]

Jack Bauer worked for the government and did horrible stuff because there was an imminent threat. I see Punisher as more the "vigilante revenge fantasy when there is no law" a la "Deathwish."

He did horrible stuff because he was on Fox, and they were terrorists

Skipping due process, dishing out justice to super evil bastards who totally deserve is falls under the far Right Wing fantasies. They just need to pull back from that

[Alan2099]

Skipping due process, dishing out justice to super evil bastards who totally deserve is falls under the far Right Wing fantasies.

If we're getting mad that the Punisher isn't a law abiding citizen, shouldn't we be objecting to every superhero ever?

[JackDaw]

If we're getting mad that the Punisher isn't a law abiding citizen, shouldn't we be objecting to every superhero ever?

Yes!

Super heroes in real life would be total nightmare, this is one of many things Garth Ennis is right about.

[The Cool Thatguy]

If we're getting mad that the Punisher isn't a law abiding citizen, shouldn't we be objecting to every superhero ever?

We can get mad when they start brutally murdering and torturing people on a regular basis

[Alan2099]

We can get mad when they start brutally murdering and torturing people on a regular basis

Does dangling people off rooftops or other high places count as torture, because that's a pretty standard move for superheroes.
A lot of the fast ones and fliers also like to drop them, let them fall for a bit, then catch them.

[CaptainLiberty76]

Once again let me say that nothing needs to be done regarding Frank. I love the character just as much as I loved his predecessor in paperback, the Executioner. Sometimes the best thing to do is to ignore and just simply forget them just as in Merlin with Sam O'Neil. Let's keep Frank as Frank.