What Should Marvel Do About The Punisher at This Point?

[Steel Inquisitor]

Of course he hasn't killed an innocent person. And so hasn't Spawn. They're anti-heroes, not villains (from the point of view of comics editors).
And, yeah, I know they're very different once Spawn is purely fantastic while the Punisher has some realism.

But there's counterpoint, mate. That's what I'm saying.

Anti-heroes aren't omniscient, by now Punisher should have made many, many mistakes and when he makes mistakes people die. It's not like he's got the backing like the Fantastic Four or Iron Man, he's just a man with a large arsenal. He's the manifestation of "good guy with a gun" narrative. Spawn should get into trouble with this, as well. Villains aren't villains because they make mistakes getting innocent bystanders caught up and it's not like Frank's obsessed with not harming innocents, that's more Daredevil or Spider-man. He also started out as a villain in a Spider-man title, I think they really should just go back to making him a villain again. Marvel letting him become a popular anti-hero, like Venom, was a mistake. And they need to stop humanising him so much in adaptions, too many people spend too much time doing apologia for him - like in Netflix.

[phantom1592]

Anti-heroes aren't omniscient, by now Punisher should have made many, many mistakes and when he makes mistakes people die. It's not like he's got the backing like the Fantastic Four or Iron Man, he's just a man with a large arsenal. He's the manifestation of "good guy with a gun" narrative. Spawn should get into trouble with this, as well. Villains aren't villains because they make mistakes getting innocent bystanders caught up and it's not like Frank's obsessed with not harming innocents, that's more Daredevil or Spider-man. He also started out as a villain in a Spider-man title, I think they really should just go back to making him a villain again. Marvel letting him become a popular anti-hero, like Venom, was a mistake. And they need to stop humanising him so much in adaptions, too many people spend too much time doing apologia for him - like in Netflix.

My favorite version of Punisher has always been as a villain for Daredevil to stop. Just the clash of ideals has always been a great read. And yeah... the idea that he never hurts innocent people is stupid and bad writing. His first appearance was hunting Spider-man and HE was innocent. THere's no way for Punisher to know if anyone in these mob hideouts or drug cartels are undercover cops who don't deserve to be blown up. In fact i think that was the basis for one of the earlier movies... War Zone maybe?

As for what marvel can do? There's only 2 choices. Retire him and leave in limbo for a few years... which they may have already done last I checked. Or... Nothing. You can't change the character or change the logo... jerks will just co-op the new symbol into their own agenda. Marvel just needs to sue everyone misappropriating their logos... but even then it's not going to stop bootleggers. Genies out of the bottle. Just make a blanket statement (which has been done a few times now) that they don't support the causes.

[Steel Inquisitor]

My favorite version of Punisher has always been as a villain for Daredevil to stop. Just the clash of ideals has always been a great read. And yeah... the idea that he never hurts innocent people is stupid and bad writing. His first appearance was hunting Spider-man and HE was innocent. THere's no way for Punisher to know if anyone in these mob hideouts or drug cartels are undercover cops who don't deserve to be blown up. In fact i think that was the basis for one of the earlier movies... War Zone maybe?

Been too long since I saw War Zone, so I can't remember.

As for what marvel can do? There's only 2 choices. Retire him and leave in limbo for a few years... which they may have already done last I checked. Or... Nothing. You can't change the character or change the logo... jerks will just co-op the new symbol into their own agenda. Marvel just needs to sue everyone misappropriating their logos... but even then it's not going to stop bootleggers. Genies out of the bottle. Just make a blanket statement (which has been done a few times now) that they don't support the causes.

That's pointless if it's just in the comics, barely anyone reads comics. Punisher was a big hit in Netflix Daredevil in 2015, and he got a multiple season tv show on Netflix, the last season was in 2019 - which was 2 years ago. The only reason this wasn't continued was because Disney and Netflix parted aways. Movie and tv will need to be ended completely to make an impact and that'd require leaving Frank on the shelf for more than a decade to deter his influence on pop culture.

The genie may be out of the bottle but that's why they should curb as much influence as possible, not just give no resistance that's ceding the Punisher to the terrorists and corrupt cops. Definitely nail everyone who uses the symbol illegally to the wall, that'd make them think twice.

[phantom1592]

Been too long since I saw War Zone, so I can't remember.

yeah, its blurry for me too... but if I recall the only thing i really liked about it was that it was NOT an origin story avenging his family...

That's pointless if it's just in the comics, barely anyone reads comics. Punisher was a big hit in Netflix Daredevil in 2015, and he got a multiple season tv show on Netflix, the last season was in 2019 - which was 2 years ago. The only reason this wasn't continued was because Disney and Netflix parted aways. Movie and tv will need to be ended completely to make an impact and that'd require leaving Frank on the shelf for more than a decade to deter his influence on pop culture.

The genie may be out of the bottle but that's why they should curb as much influence as possible, not just give no resistance that's ceding the Punisher to the terrorists and corrupt cops. Definitely nail everyone who uses the symbol illegally to the wall, that'd make them think twice.

It should be remembered too that he barely used that symbol in the netflix series. The lack of identifiable costumes is my biggest complaint about the whole NetflixMCU franchise.

[Agent Z]

@phantom1592 and Steel Inquisitor. Yes, Punisher: War Zone is the movie you are thinking about. In that film, Frank kills an FBI agent not knowing he is working undercover in the mob.

[extra skater]

He also started out as a villain in a Spider-man title, I think they really should just go back to making him a villain again. Marvel letting him become a popular anti-hero, like Venom, was a mistake.

Yeah but since then he was a different villain, with a moral code and all, he didn't want to assassin Spidey "cowardly" (as if there was some kind of "honored assassination", for God sake, but whatever) and all. I think this, since the beginning, helped to forge this anti-hero persona Marvel brought up later.

But I get what you're saying, just like That Cool Guy said. Alright.

And what about what's already been done? If it was a Marvel's mistake, the mistake's already done and can't be erased, even if they change the character's present. All the stories featuring a vigilante punishing villains brutally are still there.
I don't believe these groups will stop adoring the character even if they change it.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Yeah but since then he was a different villain, with a moral code and all, he didn't want to assassin Spidey "cowardly" (as if there was some kind of "honored assassination", for God sake, but whatever) and all. I think this, since the beginning, helped to forge this anti-hero persona Marvel brought up later.

But I get what you're saying, just like That Cool Guy said. Alright.

And what about what's already been done? If it was a Marvel's mistake, the mistake's already done and can't be erased, even if they change the character's present. All the stories featuring a vigilante punishing villains brutally are still there.
I don't believe these groups will stop adoring the character even if they change it.

It's not about erasing the mistake, it's about mitigating the damage from getting worse and sending a message. Marvel can do are more to mitigate the damage with Punisher, they just didn't do anything worthwhile when they had the chance. Marvel can also actually erase Punisher more from pop culture if they bothered trying, like in tv and movies. That dilute the Punisher's influence not just giving him critically acclaimed tv shows on Netflix. They may not stop idolising Punisher but people start getting real quiet when they get sued to oblivion by a corporation for using a symbol which doesn't belong to them. This isn't just about the groups it's about stopping their recruitment and alignment with the symbol.

[Alan2099]

It's not about erasing the mistake, it's about mitigating the damage from getting worse and sending a message. Marvel can do are more to mitigate the damage with Punisher, they just didn't do anything worthwhile when they had the chance. Marvel can also actually erase Punisher more from pop culture if they bothered trying, like in tv and movies. That dilute the Punisher's influence not just giving him critically acclaimed tv shows on Netflix. They may not stop idolising Punisher but people start getting real quiet when they get sued to oblivion by a corporation for using a symbol which doesn't belong to them. This isn't just about the groups it's about stopping their recruitment and alignment with the symbol.

Punisher is already out there. He's already made appearances in movies, shows, cartoons, and comics. You're not going to erase him from pop culture. He's already part of it.

Also, why would marvel WANT to completely stop using him? He's a popular character that a lot of people like and he makes them money. The problem is that some bad people like him, not the fact that he exists at all. Suppose Marvel did stop using him. That doesn't mean the people that are using his symbol will stop. It just means that the ONLY place you'll find hims symbol is on real-life scum bags. So now he's stopped primarily being a Marvel character that some jerks use as a symbol and become primarily a symbol of hatred that just happened to have some old comics.

[Thor-Ul]

The conundrum for Marvel is this is most a merchandising problem: if these people are using the Punisher emblem as their own, Marvel can't sell any product using their insignia without any kind of polemic and that is an economic and PR problem. Any new toy of the Punisher, any poster, any t-shirt is something than Marvel can't sell. And worst, how to put somekind of restrictive order to people who have bought your product? When you sell something, you can't have control over what the person does with what they do with the object they bought. If they do it it could open an array of negative consecuences, as if Marvel would be saying they still own something you payed for.
The meaning than people would be giving to your product is something you can't control, I mean, what if they had choosed to use an X in a circle as their emblem? Stop publishing X-men? I don't thing Marcal can't do anything than just wait and keep the character under low profile, at least until this is no news.