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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mortari View Post
    Marvel has always been involved in real world politics and the best stories are the ones set with 1 foot firmly in the world that could be outside your door.
    I don't mind the symbolic connections. Like the X-men/civil rights connection etc. But I've always hated the more direct connections. Maybe that's why I'm not a big fan of Captain America. As far as Captain America #1 goes... I assume you mean the original issue from 1941? Back then I think we only had Captain America, Namor and the original Human Torch... so it wasn't the shared Marvel Universe like we have now. I assume the Captain America stories were fairly self-contained.

    The Marvel Universe now is a ridiculous fantastical place. With reality warpers, people raised from the dead... it's hard enough for me to buy into the universe in its own terms... but bringing the real world politics directly into it just makes it fall apart for me.
    Last edited by evolutionaryFan; 01-10-2021 at 11:09 AM.

  2. #32
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OOTCS View Post
    ... I doubt most of those people read comic books ....
    I think you'd be surprised by how many of them actually do read comics.

    But your larger point is spot on: Now that they've found validation for their twisted world view, no thanks in large part to the various media outlets that serve as daily bread for their hatred, I don't think writing a story where the Punisher threatens a fictitious group of them will lead them to change their ways.

  3. #33
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by your_name_here View Post
    Introduce a like-minded fictional group called “The Punishers”

    They’ll end up butting heads with Frank and we’ll see why/how they differ and that there is only ONE Punisher.
    I'm not sure the psychology works. The reality here is that Frank doesn't exactly agree with the real world racists and they know it. Nevertheless, they co-opt his symbol because he is a violent man that operates outside of the law, Constitutional or otherwise. His fealty is to his own cause, his own mission. Creating a fictional group might work contrary to your intent. After all, the ultimate fantasy for readers is to envision themselves operating in this fictional universe. You might be singing their tune, instead of stopping their flow. The last thing you want to do with these hate groups is shred a guitar in an echo chamber. Cacophony is bliss. When they look up and see The Punishers, i.e., themselves, on panel, it might only encourage them more. "What else can we co-opt?" The tin wheels in their minds don't function the way that one would think. If it did, storming the Capitol to attempt to subvert the Will of the People wouldn't be seen as a logical course of action.

  4. #34
    Ultimate Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Putting the character on the shelf isn't going to stop right wing extremists from worshipping the character and his symbol. The only thing that can be done is to turn the character into something these people hate. My idea, and I'm sure it will not sit well with a lot of people, is to make Frank Castle gay or change his race.

  5. #35
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    What Marvel should do is stop protecting Frank from the logical consequences of his methods.

    He sprays bullets everywhere. Have him shoot and kill someone innocent or sympathetic.

    He tortures people every third issue. Have that be less effective or not actually work, or work against Castle.

    Retiring him won't stop people from using his symbol.

    But demonstrating the issues with his MO would certainly undermine the fantasy that so many hold.

  6. #36
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    make him a robot, the skull will be on his booty
    I don't blind date I make the direct market vibrate

  7. #37
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    I agree retiring the symbol or Frank himself will not stop these people from using the symbol.

    But retiring Frank could make a big statement. They could say we are no longer glorifying a man who is idolized by these groups. They could make a statement saying yes Frank was fun for awhile but his way, his character is an idea that should remain in the past.
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  8. #38
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackClaw View Post
    It’s super unfortunate that this character has been hijacked by hate groups and dirty cops. I wouldn’t want Frank gone entirely but there are a couple of options Marvel can do. The first is to simply keep him around but relegate him to guest appearances only. The second is to simply retire his logo.

    But I think the boldest option is to keep him around but do a story where Frank specifically goes after hate groups like the Proud Boys and the alt right. That Marvel can tell the world that the Punisher is here to stay and he has absolute ZERO tolerance for these scumbags and that they are not on the same side in any shape or form. It’ll be controversial to the groups I mentioned and those who sympathize with them. But with Trump getting banned from almost every major platform online and Parler getting dropped by both google and Apple, I think it’s safe to say that people are caring less and less about what these people think.
    Beautiful idea. Retiring Frank is not the way to go. Do more mini series with him and see how they sell.
    "We live in a world of cowards. We live in a world full of small minds who are afraid. We are ruled by those who refuse to risk anything of their own. Who guard their over bloated paucities of power with money. With false reasoning. With measured hesitance. With prideful, recalcitrant inaction. With hateful invective. With weapons. F@#K these selfish fools and their prevailing world order." Tony Stark

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Nothing. What's next? Are we going to have discussions about what to do about The Joker, V from V from Vendetta, The White Queen? You're thinking too much. Relax. You can't change the character because the morons don't read the comic. This is a classic case of "We have to do something" thinking that leads to something like Dr. Doom crying at ground zero. Let's not repeat that.
    Last edited by Anthony W; 01-10-2021 at 01:55 PM. Reason: Amused that people are talking about revamping the character as if that will help. The morons doing the damage don't read com
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  10. #40
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mortari View Post
    Have you seen the cover of Captain America #1. Marvel has always been involved in real world politics and the best stories are the ones set with 1 foot firmly in the world that could be outside your door.
    Not only that, but back in the day, Jack Kirby had Black Panther beat the **** out of the KKK. So having a story where Frank goes after the Proud Boys wouldn’t be out of the ordinary for Marvel.
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  11. #41
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    What Marvel should do is stop protecting Frank from the logical consequences of his methods.

    He sprays bullets everywhere. Have him shoot and kill someone innocent or sympathetic.

    He tortures people every third issue. Have that be less effective or not actually work, or work against Castle.

    Retiring him won't stop people from using his symbol.

    But demonstrating the issues with his MO would certainly undermine the fantasy that so many hold.
    So basically you want to ruin the Punisher so that nobody anywhere likes him. That doesn't seem like anything that would help Marvel in the long run.

  12. #42
    Extraordinary Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I agree retiring the symbol or Frank himself will not stop these people from using the symbol.

    But retiring Frank could make a big statement. They could say we are no longer glorifying a man who is idolized by these groups. They could make a statement saying yes Frank was fun for awhile but his way, his character is an idea that should remain in the past.
    Except...money.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    So basically you want to ruin the Punisher so that nobody anywhere likes him. That doesn't seem like anything that would help Marvel in the long run.
    Hey, if they can hold Spider-Man or Batman responsible for all the deaths their villains caused, why can't Castle be held to the same logical consequences?

    Not like anyone's stopped reading DD after he killed a guy

  14. #44
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Except...money.
    Since he really hasnt sustained a long running solo how much money can thee be at this point?
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  15. #45
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    I think they're going to like him no matter what he actually does. That's just how fandom works. You ignore the parts that you dislike about a character.

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