What Should Marvel Do About The Punisher at This Point?

[skyvolt2000]

since I doubt most of those people read comic books.

You will be amazed by what folks read. Also remember we have trades out there with Punisher and bins filled with his comics.

[king of hybrids]

With the benefit of hindsight, it might have been better had Frank either been killed or permanently incarcerated after Secret Empire for Murder and sedition in Hydra’s service (if killed, have whatever thing heaven has on him used to restore him as FrankenCastle, not as punisher)

[skyvolt2000]

Putting the character on the shelf isn't going to stop right wing extremists from worshipping the character and his symbol. The only thing that can be done is to turn the character into something these people hate. My idea, and I'm sure it will not sit well with a lot of people, is to make Frank Castle gay or change his race.

There is a black one from the UK.

Except...money.

From the Proud Boys' and their ilk?

I agree retiring the symbol or Frank himself will not stop these people from using the symbol.

You stop producing official stuff and be ready to sue over fake stuff.

[Anthony W]

Since he really hasnt sustained a long running solo how much money can thee be at this point?

Empty gesture. You would be preaching to the choir because the people you are trying to send a message to don't read comics. You are heading into "Doctor Doom crying" territory.

[PCN24454]

The problem with Punisher is the same problem superheroes in general have: that superheroes are a hard rightwing-libertarian fantasy, and the tropes needed to make them the hero of the story are effectively hard rightwing libertarian propaganda. These are stories in which systemic solutions always lead to dystopia, and the only effective solution to crime is to push past the bureaucrats and the laws chaining you and enforce justice with your own two fists or guns. Punisher isn't fundamentally different in that respect, he's just a little more obvious. The mask on the propaganda is thinner. You can see the wires behind the magic trick more easily.

Funny enough, I think the best way to deal with the Punisher is to show that his way really doesn't work. Considering how comics are static by nature, it's not hard to argue.

[Alpha]

Now that I think about it, aren't you guys on the right that complain about people bringing politics into everything? Why are you bringing it here? Nobody has been discussing whether what happened was justified or not, only discussing the fact that the Alt Right is being publicly shunned and Marvel has a symbol of theirs being used by them, which is something Marvel doesn't want and might lead them not to ever use the character again unless we find a solution. It's not about personal politics. So maybe start your own thread if that's what you wanna discuss.

[SuperiorIronman]

Empty gesture. You would be preaching to the choir because the people you are trying to send a message to don't read comics. You are heading into "Doctor Doom crying" territory.

The thing you're not getting is that this goes beyond comics. Think of all the places Punisher shows up. All the merchandise that these people will see. Comics are a niche product but the characters appear in media beyond it. So the Punisher appears in a videogame, guest stars in a show, gets a Netflix series, gets a movie, has a toy line, a novel, etc. There is more places people will be exposed to the character than the source material. You can easily become a fan of Spider-man for example without ever touching the comics. But products can be discontinued or things like a novel can have a cover changed. So by altering the Punisher you can retake the brand and reintroduce it away from people like the terrorists in the capital or police officers gone rogue.

[Ptrvc]

Now that I think about it, aren't you guys on the right that complain about people bringing politics into everything? Why are you bringing it here? Nobody has been discussing whether what happened was justified or not, only discussing the fact that the Alt Right is being publicly shunned and Marvel has a symbol of theirs being used by them, which is something Marvel doesn't want and might lead them not to ever use the character again unless we find a solution. It's not about personal politics. So maybe start your own thread if that's what you wanna discuss.

Just call it Two Minutes Hate. At least be honest.

[PCN24454]

The thing you're not getting is that this goes beyond comics. Think of all the places Punisher shows up. All the merchandise that these people will see. Comics are a niche product but the characters appear in media beyond it. So the Punisher appears in a videogame, guest stars in a show, gets a Netflix series, gets a movie, has a toy line, a novel, etc. There is more places people will be exposed to the character than the source material. You can easily become a fan of Spider-man for example without ever touching the comics. But products can be discontinued or things like a novel can have a cover changed. So by altering the Punisher you can retake the brand and reintroduce it away from people like the terrorists in the capital or police officers gone rogue.

That means that Punisher would have to be altered/retired from everything.

[SuperiorIronman]

That means that Punisher would have to be altered/retired from everything.

They spent all that time altering merchandise for the X-men and Fantastic Four ban so I see no reason why it'd be out of the question with Punisher.

[PCN24454]

They spent all that time altering merchandise for the X-men and Fantastic Four ban so I see no reason why it'd be out of the question with Punisher.

You're not wrong.

[Anthony W]

The thing you're not getting is that this goes beyond comics.

Oh I get it, that is why my answer to the question of what Marvel should do about the Punisher is nothing.

Think of all the places Punisher shows up. All the merchandise that these people will see. Comics are a niche product but the characters appear in media beyond it. So the Punisher appears in a videogame, guest stars in a show, gets a Netflix series, gets a movie, has a toy line, a novel, etc. There is more places people will be exposed to the character than the source material.You can easily become a fan of Spider-man for example without ever touching the comics. But products can be discontinued or things like a novel can have a cover changed. So by altering the Punisher you can retake the brand and reintroduce it away from people like the terrorists in the capital or police officers gone rogue.

Sure why not. After we are done with Punisher we can focus on other problematic characters like V from V for Vendetta. Why stop there? Let's take a long hard look at Batman and The Joker. Hey look, it's a slippery slope and you are tumbling down it. Of course something like this probably will happen because everyone seems to be shifting into "We have to do SOMETHING" mode. The only questions will be just how stupid the "something" will be and how embarrassed everyone will be afterwards. Hopefully it isn't "Doctor Doom crying" bad.

[SuperiorIronman]

Oh I get it, that is why my answer to the question of what Marvel should do about the Punisher is nothing.



Sure why not. After we are done with Punisher we can focus on other problematic characters like V from V for Vendetta. Why stop there? Let's take a long hard look at Batman and The Joker. Hey look, it's a slippery slope and you are tumbling down it. Of course something like this probably will happen because everyone seems to be shifting into "We have to do SOMETHING" mode. The only questions will be just how stupid the "something" will be and how embarrassed everyone will be afterwards. Hopefully it isn't "Doctor Doom crying" bad.

The issue is that the character has become a rallying flag for murderers and terrorists and so it should be changed. It's also really bad publicity that the brand you own about killing people deemed criminals by an unhinged former cop is also being used as a rallying symbol for terrorists and rogue law enforcement.

All they have to do is change the logo. Motivation would also be nice but really all they have to do is change the logo.

[Tofali]

That means that Punisher would have to be altered/retired from everything.

There is grace in failure i guess because even if Marvel discontinues all publication and merchandise connected to the characters there will still be Punisher connected merch produced by parties not contracted by Marvel themselves.

[JudicatorPrime]

I think they're going to like him no matter what he actually does. That's just how fandom works. You ignore the parts that you dislike about a character.

Not coincidentally, that's also how cult of personality works.

No one should be surprised that the terrorist extreme right radical insurrectionists (TERRI?) chose the Punisher's insignia as their own. It's a terribly short step from Frank Castle's jihad to their fantasy world where violence and intimidation are used justifiably (in their minds) to ensure primacy of right wing ideology. It really doesn't matter that Castle's idea of "justice" and TERRI's idea of "justice" is vastly different.

For the record, I don't think Marvel should do anything as it relates to the Punisher's symbol. But I do agree with earlier posters who commented that Marvel needs to do a better job of showing why Castle's tactics don't work. If Blue Marvel wasn't allowed to destroy racist America back in the 1960s, and Charles Xavier wasn't allowed to purge every hateful thought and impulse from the mind of every American for future generations to come, then Castle should not be given free reign to conduct his anti-crime terror campaign either without severe consequences. Perhaps even unintended consequences.