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  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    I love her as both. I enjoy seeing her in the field with others, kicking butt.

    It'd be great if they could have her pull both off successfully but I feel like that is hard to do and its so easy to have her just slip back into Batgirl more than Oracle.

  2. #17
    Concerned Citizen Citizen Kane's Avatar
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    I don't think she should really ever "outgrow" the Batgirl moniker, as that's who she is. If she can't be Batgirl any longer, Oracle works just fine.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Batgirl is more iconic, but I feel she is more consistently well written as Oracle. And I feel Oracle is a more unique role.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    She shouldn't outgrow the Batgirl.

    She should never go back to Oracle. That mantle was only ever worthwhile when it meant something larger. Now that it is no longer a symbol of positive representation it's a down grade for Babs. She should stay Batgirl. Anything else is a disservice
    Last edited by Fergus; 01-12-2021 at 07:02 AM.

  5. #20
    Comix Addict! Comics N' Toons's Avatar
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    This may be controversial given Bat-history, BUT I think Babs as Batgirl is one of the greatest creations for ALL of DC Comics. I think she was amazing in the 60's, 70's and 80's as Batgirl. and I loved The Killing Joke. I liked her as Oracle okay, but... without retcons I would have liked to see Alex Ross/Paul Dini pitch sometime after being Oracle for a long while and would have loved, post Cass, if she would have gotten the Laz Pit bath and been fully restored.Then, as Sue Richards did under J. Byrne, Babs could return as Batwoman, AND... Cass could have remained as Batgirl... Steph was only really ever interesting as Spoiler! Just my $0.02
    Last edited by Comics N' Toons; 01-12-2021 at 07:41 AM.

  6. #21
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    She never really had to "outgrow" it any more than Bruce has to outgrow Batman. Especially as she was designed to be distaff counterpart that operated independently, not a straight side kick. The "girl" is a left over trend from the 60s/70s of not writing women as women. They honestly should have just made the same transition that Sue Storm and Shayera got and called her "Batwoman" with no other difference and called it a day. Same with Kara as Supergirl.

    But too late now I guess

  7. #22
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    It's too late for Barbara because we have Kate Kane, but it's not too late for Kara to become Superwoman. None of the other Superwomen are solid enough to hold that name.
    And I prefer Barbara as Oracle but whatever.

  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    You can't really do an Oracle ongoing comic, and Oracle Movie or sell Oracle Action figures.
    There are 127 issues of BoP that says otherwise.

    Mattel is selling disabled Barbie doll toys.

    Barbara as Batgirl forever becomes stagnant and rudderless as a character. Her transformation Oracle puts more emphasis on her skills as a librarian and hacker.

  9. #24
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus[I
    [/I];5323398]There are 127 issues of BoP that says otherwise.

    Mattel is selling disabled Barbie doll toys.

    Barbara as Batgirl forever becomes stagnant and rudderless as a character. Her transformation Oracle puts more emphasis on her skills as a librarian and hacker.
    BOP isn't an Oracle solo feature though, it has other leads. Canary was arguably the co-lead for most of it. I think that's the issue for some, Babs as Oracle can either be used as part of a team with other physically active characters or she's a supporting character for whoever is Batgirl at the moment, but she never got a clear solo that she could have as Batgirl. It might be the same in other media, where we would ideally get some play of her as Batgirl before maybe doing Oracle.

    Which isn't the worst thing, I think her BOP era is better than any stuff we've had as Batgirl since New 52. But I disagree that she would have become stagnant and rudderless as Batgirl any more than other characters had TKJ not happened. The main drawback of being Batigirl now is that the Bat-family has gotten way bigger since she's been Oracle, and she's no longer filling a unique niche like she used to. As well as DC's stupid decision to keep most of continuity while making her Batgirl again, when she'd be much better off with multiple versions so we could get Oracle in one and a clean break from all the baggage as Batgirl in another.

    It's a case of post-Crisis developments informing how characters used to be. Neither Robin or Batgirl had to be identities to be "graduated" from, but now it has gained traction and expected that they be so.

  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I don't know they been not sure what to do with Babs. I mean I guess the best they can do is have her be both Batgirl and Oracle.

  11. #26
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    I wouldn't mind a “Team Batgirl” including Babs, Cass, and Steph, all in their respective Batgirl garb and using their alternate codenames (Oracle, Orphan, and Spoiler) as call-signs. Maybe even bring Bette into the mix; call-sign Flamebird.
    Rogue wears rouge.
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  12. #27
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    She always seemed the lead to me of BoP, if not in the field like Dinah was, especially during Simone's run.

    The Batgirl or Robin identities weren't necessarily designed to have a legacy, but I don't see why it can't be. Batman didn't need to have a young sidekick or a younger female counterpart, but writers went through with that and the rest is history.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comics N' Toons View Post
    This may be controversial given Bat-history, BUT I think Babs as Batgirl is one of the greatest creations for ALL of DC Comics. I think she was amazing in the 60's, 70's and 80's as Batgirl. and I loved The Killing Joke. I liked her as Oracle okay, but... without retcons I would have liked to see Alex Ross/Paul Dini pitch sometime after being Oracle for a long while and would have loved, post Cass, if she would have gotten the Laz Pit bath and been fully restored.Then, as Sue Richards did under J. Byrne, Babs could return as Batwoman, AND... Cass could have remained as Batgirl... Steph was only really ever interesting as Spoiler! Just my $0.02
    The ground I wish they went back to is Barbara in College and/or a Politician. There is a lot of stuff that you could do with Barbara in Congress (or Mayor of Gotham City). I would love to see her butt heads with Waller, for instance. Keep Steph and Cass as the active Batgirls, while Barbara has to deal with Cadmus and the other government agencies.

  14. #29
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I think "out grow" might be the wrong term.

    There was no real need, from a character standpoint, for Babs to outgrow the mantle; she wasn't a kid sidekick and being Batgirl wasn't especially tied to any particular phase of her life. At most she should have transitioned from "girl" to "woman" at some point, but that's really about it.

    That said however, the events that led her to becoming Oracle made her a stronger, more interesting, more compelling character (in my opinion). It's not that she "out grew" being Batgirl, but life threw her a serious curve ball and forced her to make a transition. And for my money she never should have regressed back, because she feels like all the development and character she gained after TKJ and in BoP was tossed along with the chair, and DC doesn't quite remember everything she was before the chair either. And in today's world, the role of Oracle should be more important than ever; the idea that you can't make a good, strong-selling book with that premise (chair or no chair) is simply insane and provably false.

    I think having Babs operate as Batgirl *and* Oracle is a viable compromise. There's different ways to spin that, I think, that can be interesting and viable and help make Babs stand out while respecting her past. I maintain, and always will, that making her Batgirl again was a mistake and it's largely derailed and ruined not just her, but Steph and Cass too (at the least it's left them all adrift). But I think DC can course correct, and in doing so, find a balance that will make both Batgirl and Oracle fans happy.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  15. #30
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    She always seemed the lead to me of BoP, if not in the field like Dinah was, especially during Simone's run.

    The Batgirl or Robin identities weren't necessarily designed to have a legacy, but I don't see why it can't be. Batman didn't need to have a young sidekick or a younger female counterpart, but writers went through with that and the rest is history.
    Yeah but when they created the young sidekick, they didn't create it with the idea that there would be 4-5 more of them all competing for attention. Which has had both its pluses and minuses. We see in the fandom that the fanbases of the different Robins can be at each others throats.

    I agree with Ascended, that the term "outgrow" doesn't really fit Babs as Batgirl. At most, she could have transitioned to Batwoman and nobody would be saying she needs to grow into anything else. TKJ sucked and the creation of Oracle was a well done salvage job that turned into something great. It's more of a change than a sidekick growing into adulthood thing.

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