Better Bromance: Spidey and Daredevil or Spidey and The Human Torch?

[Nanashi]

Who do you think has the better friendship?

[justanotherclassic]

I prefer Spider-Man and the Human Torch because Peter at this point is honestly a party of the Fantastic Family, whereas he isn't with Matt.

[Snoop Dogg]

daredevil because torch is his boyfriend

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Neither of them are especially close to Peter (who can never have truly close male friendships).

Daredevil takes Spider-Man seriously and respects him as a superhero, while Johnny Storm treats him with a mix of envy and camaraderie. So it's different.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Human torch because Daredevil feels more like an amiable coworker.

[Alkaeus]

Neither of them are especially close to Peter (who can never have truly close male friendships).

Daredevil takes Spider-Man seriously and respects him as a superhero, while Johnny Storm treats him with a mix of envy and camaraderie. So it's different.

? Are you saying that he has hasn't yet had those kind of relationships or that he's somehow psychologically incapable of them?

Also, what famous/well-regarded stories are there featuring the relationships? I know Daredevil has a major turn in the Death of Jeanne DeWolffe and the Human Torch has that story in ASM #1 and Slott's Human/Torch mini.

[Jabare]

Spidey and Torch is a bromance.


Daredevil and Spider-Man don't have a bromance. Superhero colleagues at best.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

? Are you saying that he has hasn't yet had those kind of relationships or that he's somehow psychologically incapable of them?

Peter's always going to be closer to his girlfriends and his wife emotionally speaking than to any of his male friends. He's a quote unquote "wife guy" and prefers the company of women over men.

That's a very consistent part of his character over the years. He's not capable of bromances.

Also, what famous/well-regarded stories are there featuring the relationships? I know Daredevil has a major turn in the Death of Jeanne DeWolffe and the Human Torch has that story in ASM #1 and Slott's Human/Torch mini.

Spider-Man/Human Torch appeared a lot (often antagonistically) in Lee-Ditko's original run on Spider-Man and later in Conway's run teamed up to build the Spider-Mobile.

But it wasn't until Slott/Templeton's mini that people realized that this was a thing. And the entire point of that story is Torch being miffed that over the years Spider-Man never told him his secret identity (which apparently Reed knew) and never shared anything of his life with him, feeling that he was a closer friend of Spider-Man than the latter to him. So they became in-continuity closer after that.

In the case of Spider-Man/Daredevil they were close, and probably Peter's closest bond in the superhero community until OMD where Daredevil lost memory of Peter's identity (and during Soule's run, presumably Peter lost knowledge of DD's identity when he used Purple Man to make everyone forget) so it's only recently, during Zdarsky's run that Spider-Man and Daredevil have become buddies of a kind again. Over the decades, Spider-Man has had close bonds with a number of heroes for a few issues. He and X-Man Nate Grey were a duo for some issues in the late-90s with Spidey as a kind of mentor/older brother for him, and then during Civil War they made Peter-Tony bromance happen. Peter-Captain America is an off-and-on, the two get on well whenever they appear when written by writers who like both characters (Dematteis, JMS) but otherwise not so much.

[CrimsonEchidna]

In the case of Spider-Man/Daredevil they were close, and probably Peter's closest bond in the superhero community until OMD where Daredevil lost memory of Peter's identity (and during Soule's run, presumably Peter lost knowledge of DD's identity when he used Purple Man to make everyone forget) so it's only recently, during Zdarsky's run that Spider-Man and Daredevil have become buddies of a kind again. Over the decades, Spider-Man has had close bonds with a number of heroes for a few issues. He and X-Man Nate Grey were a duo for some issues in the late-90s with Spidey as a kind of mentor/older brother for him, and then during Civil War they made Peter-Tony bromance happen. Peter-Captain America is an off-and-on, the two get on well whenever they appear when written by writers who like both characters (Dematteis, JMS) but otherwise not so much.

And don't forget Deadpool, although that always felt like someone when Marketting caught wind of how popular "SpiderPool" was online and wanted to capitalize on it. lol

[Iron Maiden]

Neither of them are especially close to Peter (who can never have truly close male friendships).

Daredevil takes Spider-Man seriously and respects him as a superhero, while Johnny Storm treats him with a mix of envy and camaraderie. So it's different.

I beg to differ on this. I've been reading comics for more years than I like to admit to and the Torch / Spidey friendship has a lot more mileage than with Daredevil/Spider-Man. If you recall during Hickman's run when Johnny died protecting their HQ against a breech from the Negative Zone, Johnny even had in put in his will that if he died he wanted Peter to replace him in the group. . Peter and Johnny have their regular meeting spot on top of the Statue of Liberty going back to Strange Tales annual #2. That's a long history of friendship that Matt just can't compete with, plus Peter and Johnny are about the same age. But more than that, Peter has been accepted as a member of the FF family so he's more than a friend. For each of them, they are like the brother they never had.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

If you recall during Hickman's run when Johnny died protecting their HQ against a breech from the Negative Zone, Johnny even had in put in his will that if he died he wanted Peter to replace him in the group.

That was after Slott's mini though. Slott's mini really did codify that connection in a big way. But before that, it was more vague and irregular than a definite thing.

Peter and Johnny have their regular meeting spot on top of the Statue of Liberty going back to Strange Tales annual #2. That's a long history of friendship that Matt just can't compete with, plus Peter and Johnny are about the same age.

Johnny's a few years older than Peter. But Peter's more mature and far more of a grownup than him.

[Iron Maiden]

That was after Slott's mini though. Slott's mini really did codify that connection in a big way. But before that, it was more vague and irregular than a definite thing.

Irregular?? There's been a lot of interaction between the two going back to the Silver Age. I can't name all of them but they're sprinkled throughout 60's onward. Let's just say it wasn't unusual to see the Torch pop up in ASM for a brief cameo. Or have the pair of them featured in MTU. Johnny built the Spider-Mobile for Peter and then had to teach him how to drive!

Johnny's a few years older than Peter. But Peter's more mature and far more of a grownup than him.

But Matt's got to be at least 10 years older, probably more. I'd say Matt could be around 40 but Marvel doesn't give out ages most of the time so it's up to the reader. I'd put him younger than Reed at least. Matt is a big brother image perhaps but in the superhero community Johnny is the guy that Peter is going to hang around with.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Irregular??

Yeah.

They had interaction in the Lee-Ditko era, then in the '70s for a few issues when he made the Spider-Mobile, the one you cite. And then a long nothing where you had nothing. And that continued throughout.

I can't name all of them but they're sprinkled throughout 60's onward.

In ASM it was irregular. In MTU or other stuff, maybe. But remember, ASM had a higher readership.

But Matt's got to be at least 10 years older, probably more.

Matt's older than Peter now, (certainly not 40, lol) but he was fairly young when he started out and around the time of "The Death of Jean DeWolff" was about 5-6 years older than Peter at best.

Tony Stark is 40 or 40+ or so.

[Frontier]

Yeah.

They had interaction in the Lee-Ditko era, then in the '70s for a few issues when he made the Spider-Mobile, the one you cite. And then a long nothing where you had nothing. And that continued throughout

Johnny also helped lead to the invention of bag-man .

I'm sure there was probably some stuff in the 80's/90's. I think I remember an issue of Waid's FF that had Johnny and Peter together.

In ASM it was irregular. In MTU or other stuff, maybe. But remember, ASM had a higher readership.

But it still wasn't the only Spidey book.

[davew128]

Matt's older than Peter now, (certainly not 40, lol) but he was fairly young when he started out and around the time of "The Death of Jean DeWolff" was about 5-6 years older than Peter at best.

Sorry but no. Let's not forget that Matt was already a lawyer when he became Daredevil. That means he not only finished college but law school. He was at minimum 25 (and I'm being generous) when he started out at Nelson & Murdock. At the time Peter would be have been 15 (on panel). So yes, we're looking at at least a 10 year age difference.