Post-Death Metal consequences

[BohemiaDrinker]

Why not?

I'm a little surprised by the certainty that people have that this new set-up will automatically be bad when we haven't seen in put into practice yet. There will no doubt be bad to mediocre comics told with this set-up, but that was true in every prior permutation of continuity. The key difference now is that bad stories can be immediately ignored without the need to explain them away. They can just fade into the great giant sea of forgotten stories, allowing creators to move on to better stuff.

It doesn't mean that stories can't use inter-connected continuity to build upon older stories or reference what's going on in other book, but they now don't need to do so. How is that a bad approach? That feels like the best of both worlds to me. It might not be, but it could be.

Now, I have no idea if that's how it's actually going to work, and neither do you or anyone else. We won't actually know how this new status quo is going to work until we actually see comics using it, so all these dire predictions I'm reading on this forum seem a tad premature.

And I'm actually surprised that people are taking this approach as if it was intended to be permanent.

It's obviously not.

Death Metal ended with UbberGod Diana beyond the source wall knowing and having the power to shape anything, a new back-up Earth, the promise of a "coming threat" and a mission statement. It's quite obvious that "somewhen" (I'd bet in 5 to six years, but who knows) things are gonna get straightened out and yet another shift in the status quo will come.

HOWEVER, putting the weight of "fixing continuity" at the shoulders of Snyder and Death Metal was just not viable, on account of DC continuity never having been even close to the mess it was in the last decade, particularly in the last 5 years. Add to that all the changes in management (Dan Didio's firing being the most high profile but far from the only one) and all the divides nurtured by the previous administration. They can't say "ok, this is the DC Universe" right now because, no matter what, 2/3 of the fans will hate it.

So now they're gonna focus on having a healthy DCU and audience again. A Superman that works well enough without gimmicks, Flash fans that don't want to kill each other, introduce some diverse legacies without the risk of their introduction erasing anything about their predecessors, maybe take a tour on some new Earths.

On such a task, it's obvious there will be inconsistencies, there's no way to avoid them. Death Metal ending accounts for that going forward.

Then they'll know what actually works. And only then they'll straighten things out.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

And I'm actually surprised that people are taking this approach as if it was intended to be permanent.

It's obviously not.

Death Metal ended with UbberGod Diana beyond the source wall knowing and having the power to shape anything, a new back-up Earth, the promise of a "coming threat" and a mission statement. It's quite obvious that "somewhen" (I'd bet in 5 to six years, but who knows) things are gonna get straightened out and yet another shift in the status quo will come.

HOWEVER, putting the weight of "fixing continuity" at the shoulders of Snyder and Death Metal was just not viable, on account of DC continuity never having been even close to the mess it was in the last decade, particularly in the last 5 years. Add to that all the changes in management (Dan Didio's firing being the most high profile but far from the only one) and all the divides nurtured by the previous administration. They can't say "ok, this is the DC Universe" right now because, no matter what, 2/3 of the fans will hate it.

So now they're gonna focus on having a healthy DCU and audience again. A Superman that works well enough without gimmicks, Flash fans that don't want to kill each other, introduce some diverse legacies without the risk of their introduction erasing anything about their predecessors, maybe take a tour on some new Earths.

On such a task, it's obvious there will be inconsistencies, there's no way to avoid them. Death Metal ending accounts for that going forward.

Then they'll know what actually works. And only then they'll straighten things out.

I agree that sooner or later the history of Earth-0 will more or less solidify into something more concrete, but I think DC is already moving away from Earth-0 as the main focus of their publishing plans. They'll keep that "classic" DCU Earth around, with its Greatest Hits history, for the long-time fans who are still a dependable source of revenue, but more or more comics will be produced that exist as their own thing.

This, in theory, is a solid plan. 40 to 50 year old hobbyists should not be the primary focus of a healthy comic book company. Whether or not it succeeds is another question. Lost of kids are most certainly still interested in reading comics, but they simply aren't interested in reading them in the same way that old fans are, and aren't necessarily invested in the decades-long continuities that only a small segment of even hard-core fans are.

I'm looking forward to seeing what DC does next. I'm sure it'll be a rocky road, but I have no problem with letting creators have more freedom in regards to continuity for a few years to see if anyone can mine those older stories for gold. I'm sure the vast majority of creators are simply going to tell the same stories they would have anyways, the only difference now is that you won't have editors nixing ideas because it contradicts an issue of Underpants Man #34, which retconned that Underpants Lad never visited the Vault of Undergarments until after he'd died and been resurrected by the dastardly Commando Bandit.

[legion_quest]

Genuinely so confused about what DC continuity and the state of everything is right now that I'm actually put off bothering to try and figure it out.

I hope they can put something out, a primer book or something to just explain what the heck is happening and where everything lays.

[James Hunter]

Genuinely so confused about what DC continuity and the state of everything is right now that I'm actually put off bothering to try and figure it out.

I hope they can put something out, a primer book or something to just explain what the heck is happening and where everything lays.

I thought that was exactly what INFINITE FRONTIER in March is meant to be...

[Hol]

I'm looking forward to seeing what DC does next. I'm sure it'll be a rocky road, but I have no problem with letting creators have more freedom in regards to continuity for a few years to see if anyone can mine those older stories for gold. I'm sure the vast majority of creators are simply going to tell the same stories they would have anyways, the only difference now is that you won't have editors nixing ideas because it contradicts an issue of Underpants Man #34, which retconned that Underpants Lad never visited the Vault of Undergarments until after he'd died and been resurrected by the dastardly Commando Bandit.

Is this really a problem for writers though? I feel like I only hear readers talk about continuity interfering in story ideas. Their perception. Never ever from a writer in all my years of reading interviews. In fact the only person from a publisher who ever brought it up to my recollection was Dan Didio and that was just to justify the New52. IMO.

[Robanker]

Is this really a problem for writers though? I feel like I only hear readers talk about continuity interfering in story ideas. Their perception. Never ever from a writer in all my years of reading interviews. In fact the only person from a publisher who ever brought it up to my recollection was Dan Didio and that was just to justify the New52. IMO.

Dan was seemingly always in search of the perfect reboot that would solve all his problems. It was his grail; his white whale.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Is this really a problem for writers though? I feel like I only hear readers talk about continuity interfering in story ideas. Their perception. Never ever from a writer in all my years of reading interviews. In fact the only person from a publisher who ever brought it up to my recollection was Dan Didio and that was just to justify the New52. IMO.

I have lost count of the number of times I've heard writers tell the same story about how they couldn't do something because an editor nixed it for dumb continuity reasons. The most famous example was Neil Gaiman's Superman/Green Lantern story that Mike Carlin wouldn't publish until the wild success of Sandman and even more continuity shifts prompted them to change their minds.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Dan was seemingly always in search of the perfect reboot that would solve all his problems. It was his grail; his white whale.

His most recent Word Balloon interview was very telling. He quite rightly, I think, pointed to 2004 to 2007 as the height of tenure. I think he was chasing those early successes ever since with diminishing returns.

[Robanker]

His most recent Word Balloon interview was very telling. He quite rightly, I think, pointed to 2004 to 2007 as the height of tenure. I think he was chasing those early successes ever since with diminishing returns.

Oh was he on WB recently? He's a great interview guest, I definitely need to catch that one.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Oh was he on WB recently? He's a great interview guest, I definitely need to catch that one.

Just yesterday, yeah. About 45 minutes, so not a lot of time, but it was a good interview. Didio was as honest as I've seen him because he didn't have to be shilling anything but himself.

[blunt_eastwood]

I'm sure the vast majority of creators are simply going to tell the same stories they would have anyways, the only difference now is that you won't have editors nixing ideas because it contradicts an issue of Underpants Man #34, which retconned that Underpants Lad never visited the Vault of Undergarments until after he'd died and been resurrected by the dastardly Commando Bandit.

As long as the "Death of Underpants Man" story stays canon I'm fine with that.

[Robanker]

As long as the "Death of Underpants Man" story stays canon I'm fine with that.

I can do without the death, but being the softy I am, they must keep Unmentionables #13, the marriage of Underpants Man and Panelope T. Hosiery. Such a sweet issue. I wept three times.

[jaygon]

Regarding the MetaVerse :

I understand the basic premise, I’m just unsure about some of the finer details.

The birth of the Speed Force caused Superman’s timeline to be ‘pushed forward’ and reality split in two. The ‘original’ universe, home to the JSA and which had a now-different version of Superman was ‘archived’, birthing Earth-Two and the then-main timeline, with Superman ‘pushed forward’ in time, becomes the central timeline : Earth-One.

I understand this concept up until the point that it is stated that this birthed the Multiverse.

How did Earth-Three and all of the other earth of the pre-Crisis multiverse come about (from the perspective of the MetaVerse?) Pre-Crisis Earth-Six didn’t even have a Superman, to bring about a divide in the manner described above.

Or is it that the Earth-Two which was created when Barry discovered the Speed Force is a ‘different’ Earth-Two to the pre-Crisis Earth-Two and was archived outside of the pre-Crisis Multiverse?

Earth-1985 is said to have formed at the end of CRISIS which would give the impression that the ‘archived’ worlds of the MetaVerse are ‘outside’ of all the DC local multiverses pre-Crisis or otherwise.

So, did Barry’s discovery of the Speed Force create an inaccessible archived copy of the original Golden Age world IN ADDITION to the pre-crisis multiverse which ALSO had a similar Golden Age world called Earth-Two?

[Alpha]

I think you are thinking too hard about all of this. I don't mean that as an insult, I'm saying that this is far too complex of an answer for a concept that should be much more simplified

[Restingvoice]

Regarding the MetaVerse :

I understand the basic premise, I’m just unsure about some of the finer details.

The birth of the Speed Force caused Superman’s timeline to be ‘pushed forward’ and reality split in two. The ‘original’ universe, home to the JSA and which had a now-different version of Superman was ‘archived’, birthing Earth-Two and the then-main timeline, with Superman ‘pushed forward’ in time, becomes the central timeline : Earth-One.

I understand this concept up until the point that it is stated that this birthed the Multiverse.

How did Earth-Three and all of the other earth of the pre-Crisis multiverse come about (from the perspective of the MetaVerse?) Pre-Crisis Earth-Six didn’t even have a Superman, to bring about a divide in the manner described above.

Or is it that the Earth-Two which was created when Barry discovered the Speed Force is a ‘different’ Earth-Two to the pre-Crisis Earth-Two and was archived outside of the pre-Crisis Multiverse?

Earth-1985 is said to have formed at the end of CRISIS which would give the impression that the ‘archived’ worlds of the MetaVerse are ‘outside’ of all the DC local multiverses pre-Crisis or otherwise.

So, did Barry’s discovery of the Speed Force create an inaccessible archived copy of the original Golden Age world IN ADDITION to the pre-crisis multiverse which ALSO had a similar Golden Age world called Earth-Two?

Put it this way. Metaverse is not physical, but the story.

So at first in the story there's one Earth
Then it became Earth 1, 2, 3 and so on to Infinite. A Multiverse.
Earth 2 is still ongoing within the new Multiverse.

But the story of Golden Age from 1930s to 1960s is archived. That was the first part of the Metaverse

The next part of the Metaverse, the story now include a Multiverse for the first time.
Where Earth 3 and other Infinite Earths came from? from the story. The second part of the Metaverse.