Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 28 of 28
  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Venezuela
    Posts
    8,315

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    She makes a very good point there, I'll admit.



    Yeah, while I would preferably call it him "maturing" into a better person and hero over the years, I do like that the current run has called some of his past behavior into question, like when Jameson (say what you will about him resorting to criminal action himself to deal with someone he viewed as a criminal) remarked during their podcast that Peter didn't help his case for being one of the good guys by hassling and even threatening Jameson when Jameson would call him a menace, nor with his reflex to keep to himself even at the expense of a potential support network of allies and friends.
    Eh, i'm always conflicted about that, while is true that Peter wasn't exactly great in the old days, Jonah was much worse, the only that thing that Peter did to compare was around Web #14 (if i remember correctly) when Peter did try to beat him up but changed his mind at the last second, not a great look for him and i like that it was acknoledged, but JJ doesn't exactly had the hight ground on this.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
    Nobody does it better by Jeff Loveness

    "I am Thou, Thou Art I"
    Persona

  2. #17
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    New Jersey, U.S.A.
    Posts
    10,597

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Eh, i'm always conflicted about that, while is true that Peter wasn't exactly great in the old days, Jonah was much worse, the only that thing that Peter did to compare was around Web #14 (if i remember correctly) when Peter did try to beat him up but changed his mind at the last second, not a great look for him and i like that it was acknoledged, but JJ doesn't exactly had the hight ground on this.
    Fair enough. Jonah's done a lot worse to Peter in the name of proving he was a menace than Peter did to validate that viewpoint, though I still think it's important to avoid what TV Tropes would call "protagonist-centered morality," wherein good and bad are defined more in-series/universe by what benefits or harms the protagonist as opposed to objective right and wrong. In that sense, I'm somewhat glad that Spencer has been taking the time to address Peter's imperfections as a hero and character, even while maintaining respect for his character overall.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    2,664

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    even while maintaining respect for his character overall.
    This last part I can't help but laugh at.

    He maintains Peter's character by keeping him as isolated as possible from other people. It's ridiculous. He's still inconsequential to his own story.

  4. #19
    Mighty Member Jman27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,665

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    This last part I can't help but laugh at.

    He maintains Peter's character by keeping him as isolated as possible from other people. It's ridiculous. He's still inconsequential to his own story.
    isolated just cause of last remains and sin risings? Prior to that he was hanging out with Boomerang in issue 43
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

    "I need a reason to take the mask off."-Peter Parker

  5. #20
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    New Jersey, U.S.A.
    Posts
    10,597

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    isolated just cause of last remains and sin risings? Prior to that he was hanging out with Boomerang in issue 43
    And making peace with Jonah and helping Jonah make peace with his past actions in the "My Podcast with Jonah" and "Lifetime Achievement" arcs. Sins Rising and Last Remains might be dragging Peter into a darker, more isolated place, but I'm confident the lesson Peter will learn from that is that isolating himself from the people he loves and who love him back is no way to actually protect them, and that his greatest strength lies in the connections he's made with so many people in his life --- especially Mary Jane Watson(-Parker).
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  6. #21
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    2,664

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    isolated just cause of last remains and sin risings? Prior to that he was hanging out with Boomerang in issue 43
    Isn't that the biggest problem of all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    And making peace with Jonah and helping Jonah make peace with his past actions in the "My Podcast with Jonah" and "Lifetime Achievement" arcs. Sins Rising and Last Remains might be dragging Peter into a darker, more isolated place, but I'm confident the lesson Peter will learn from that is that isolating himself from the people he loves and who love him back is no way to actually protect them, and that his greatest strength lies in the connections he's made with so many people in his life --- especially Mary Jane Watson(-Parker).
    And then Kindred comes out and kills MJ and Aunt May, and he'll be forced to consider whether or not he should make a deal with Mephisto (or some other demon) to resurrect them.

  7. #22
    Mighty Member Jman27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,665

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Isn't that the biggest problem of all?
    Is it? Dude is his roommate. Plus I highly doubt Boomerang of all people is the worst person that Peter hang out with
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

    "I need a reason to take the mask off."-Peter Parker

  8. #23
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    9,886

    Default

    So Spider-Man #8 (1963) has Peter Parker be an immature dick?

    When I think where Peter comes from, in that when he started he wanted fame and fortune, but had no empathy with normal people, then it is a struggle to change those tendencies overnight. I suppose with Lee and Ditko, they had to keep those tendencies in mind through their whole tenure into #38. Peter struggled his whole life fighting against his baser tendencies, and thatís what I liked about him, (in the past tense). You have a guy who starts off as a villain, by all definitions of the character. In fact, he was more like his uncle Ezekiel than what he became later, because he didnít want to be a super hero - he just wanted to have the greed villains had. It all got turned around rather miraculously from his initial tendencies, which is a surprising turn of events for his base qualities. There must have been something lurking down inside Peter all this time, when out of the blue, Peter got super powers. Most villains donít turn on a dime like Peter. Maybe it had something to do with his dead parents? Who knows what our genes make us, as we grow up? (See ď3 Identical StrangersĒ movie as proof genes dictate your behaviour to some extent). Thatís whatís so intriguing about Spider-Man, because he is sort of a villain-hero.

  9. #24
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    196

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    So Spider-Man #8 (1963) has Peter Parker be an immature dick?

    When I think where Peter comes from, in that when he started he wanted fame and fortune, but had no empathy with normal people, then it is a struggle to change those tendencies overnight. I suppose with Lee and Ditko, they had to keep those tendencies in mind through their whole tenure into #38. Peter struggled his whole life fighting against his baser tendencies, and that’s what I liked about him, (in the past tense). You have a guy who starts off as a villain, by all definitions of the character. In fact, he was more like his uncle Ezekiel than what he became later, because he didn’t want to be a super hero - he just wanted to have the greed villains had. It all got turned around rather miraculously from his initial tendencies, which is a surprising turn of events for his base qualities. There must have been something lurking down inside Peter all this time, when out of the blue, Peter got super powers. Most villains don’t turn on a dime like Peter. Maybe it had something to do with his dead parents? Who knows what our genes make us, as we grow up? (See “3 Identical Strangers” movie as proof genes dictate your behaviour to some extent). That’s what’s so intriguing about Spider-Man, because he is sort of a villain-hero.
    But this was a case of a completely unprovoked attack. If Peter had attacked Flash Thompson or something I would have understood it. But they showed him with incredible restraint against him. He could have easily taught Flash a lesson without hurting him. Or doing something to J.J. But crashing Torch's party was just out of the blue.

  10. #25
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    New Jersey, U.S.A.
    Posts
    10,597

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    So Spider-Man #8 (1963) has Peter Parker be an immature dick?

    When I think where Peter comes from, in that when he started he wanted fame and fortune, but had no empathy with normal people, then it is a struggle to change those tendencies overnight. I suppose with Lee and Ditko, they had to keep those tendencies in mind through their whole tenure into #38. Peter struggled his whole life fighting against his baser tendencies, and that’s what I liked about him, (in the past tense). You have a guy who starts off as a villain, by all definitions of the character. In fact, he was more like his uncle Ezekiel than what he became later, because he didn’t want to be a super hero - he just wanted to have the greed villains had. It all got turned around rather miraculously from his initial tendencies, which is a surprising turn of events for his base qualities. There must have been something lurking down inside Peter all this time, when out of the blue, Peter got super powers. Most villains don’t turn on a dime like Peter. Maybe it had something to do with his dead parents? Who knows what our genes make us, as we grow up? (See “3 Identical Strangers” movie as proof genes dictate your behaviour to some extent). That’s what’s so intriguing about Spider-Man, because he is sort of a villain-hero.
    More like a flawed hero that could've easily gone the other way into outright villainy, and was tempted to do so more than once, at least in the beginning as he struggled with alienation from society and from his peers and the mistakes he made in both identities that further negatively colored people's impressions of him. That being said, he was just chasing fame and fortune with his powers at first, not necessarily revenge on his high school tormentors, which he could have easily executed if he'd truly wanted to hurt them, unless he was following the saying, "Living well is the best revenge."
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  11. #26
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    238

    Default

    Early Spider-man had some weird edges that were eventually smoothed out.
    I tend to forgive the weirdness of the first 10 issues, Lee and Ditko were still finding their feet so there's a lot of weird things that happen.
    Peter was a lot more abrasive in those early issues, I put this down to him being 15 and lashing out at the World.
    He was cooled down a lot by #11.
    Also I think they were just experimenting with crossovers etc.

  12. #27
    All-New Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    29

    Default

    I don't think the problem was Stan Lee's writing in the early issues. I'm thinking since Stan basically gave an outline of the story he wanted to Ditko, Ditko went ahead and instilled some of his Objectivist views into the comic. I think that's why Spider-man is kind of an ass in the early issues, and more prone to acting out his impulses and his wants like crashing the Torch's party. I don't have much of a handle on Objectivism but it's basically caring about oneself above all others and you see that in early issues when Peter runs into other students protesting and either berates them or blows them off as useless. Later on in the Romita issues, Peter would be more tolerant of students protesting for their causes on campus

  13. #28

    Default

    excellent story overall.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •