Apart from Year One, which is the best Batman origin story?

[mikelmcknight72]

I had to go with the Golden Age version, as the others would not exist without it. With that being said, I enjoyed Batman Begins, Zero Hour, Earth One, and the others I've read or seen. I am a bit surprised that the Flashpoint version wasn't on the poll. Of course, were it not for the New 52, I think Flashpoint would be better regarded.

[MajorHoy]

Currently, with 41 people having voted so far,

* Batman Begins = 21 votes
* Earth One = 9 votes
* Untold Legend of Batman = 9 votes
* Zero Year = 7 votes
* Golden Age (Detective Comics # 33 & Batman # 47) = 7 votes
* Golden Age Retold (Secret Origins # 6) = 4 votes

[Matt Parker]

The post-Zero Year 'zero issues' collectively do a good job charting Bruce's pre-Batman history and filling in a lot of the gaps left by Year One. They also together serve as a complete origin, hence I included them.

What issues are you referring to here? I am curious.

For my money, if we are talking multi-media, Batman Begins is the next best thing after Year One because it covers Bruce's complete journey from his parents dying to putting on the cowl. If we are strictly looking at the funny books, then Zero Year, which was an awesome update of early golden age batman stories (Dr. Death, the purple gloves). It is also my second favorite Batman story of all time after Year One.

[bat39]

What issues are you referring to here? I am curious.

For my money, if we are talking multi-media, Batman Begins is the next best thing after Year One because it covers Bruce's complete journey from his parents dying to putting on the cowl. If we are strictly looking at the funny books, then Zero Year, which was an awesome update of early golden age batman stories (Dr. Death, the purple gloves). It is also my second favorite Batman story of all time after Year One.

Sorry, I meant Zero Hour.

We're talking Batman #0, Shadow of the Bat #0, Detective Comics #0 and LOTDK #0...all published in the wake of Zero Hour.

And I agree with you - Batman Begins is probably one of the single most comprehensive origin stories for Batman. Perhaps the most comprehensive at that time. I remember Nolan saying in an interview that he felt that Batman's complete origin had never been brought together in one place before, and that's what he set out to do.

[exile001]

I have to go for Zero Year. The Red Hood and Riddler sections are ridiculously fun. I am a massive Riddler fan so it was great to see him as an actual threat (even if it was very ott and silly).

Batman Begins is a great movie and I have a massive soft spot for Gotham. It's my favourite Batman TV show after TAS.

[godisawesome]

I voted Batman Begins, partially because it incorporates his training phase as well as his debut, where most versions just go to the debut, and I genuinely think there’s a genius to having Bruce train under Ra’s with the League, as it provides a better reason for Bruce to have complicated feelings about Ra’s.

[MajorHoy]

I have to go for Zero Year. The Red Hood and Riddler sections are ridiculously fun.

But I do get annoyed when trying to figure out how 2012's Batman #0 story fits in with the overall Zero Year story.

It never felt like you could stick that issue #0 story in to what was finally presented as the whole Zero Year Red Hood arc (even though it was suppose to be part of it).

[exile001]

But I do get annoyed when trying to figure out how 2012's Batman #0 story fits in with the overall Zero Year story.

It never felt like you could stick that issue #0 story in to what was finally presented as the whole Zero Year Red Hood arc (even though it was suppose to be part of it).

Fair point, I take it as a fun side-story so it doesn't really bug me too much. Trying to fit all the cross-over issues (Green Arrow, etc) would drive me nuts!

[godisawesome]

Fair point, I take it as a fun side-story so it doesn't really bug me too much. Trying to fit all the cross-over issues (Green Arrow, etc) would drive me nuts!

I remember someone pointed out something similar about some of those Legends of the Dark Knight stories set in Batman’s “rookie season”, and even the Long Halloween; they fit the tone, characterization, and are entrusted about the “parent story”... but are somewhat vague about the actual way they connect to it.

It’s *not* a bad thing.

[MajorHoy]

I remember someone pointed out something similar about some of those Legends of the Dark Knight stories set in Batman’s “rookie season”, and even the Long Halloween; they fit the tone, characterization, and are entrusted about the “parent story”... but are somewhat vague about the actual way they connect to it.

It’s *not* a bad thing.

Problem is, the Batman #0 issue was Snyder's teaser for the future Zero Year arc, but then when he eventually wrote the Zero Year story it seemed like he forgot all about that #0 issue published a year earlier.

[Jim Kelly]

'TEC 33 but not so much BATMAN 47. The virtue of the first Batman origin story is it's short. It just gives enough details without gilding the lily. The more rope they give themselves, the more likely the writers are to hang themselves.

UNTOLD LEGENDS, as I recall, just took all the origins that had come out up to that point and tried to unify them into one long story. But I didn't like it for having Batman with the yellow oval right from the start. Paul Levitz, I think, said on a text/letter page that they didn't want to confuse new readers--or something like that--which is just silly. Also, it was only three issues long and yet they could only get John Byrne to pencil the first issue? What was up with that? If it's a limited series, then I like the same artist to do all three issues.

I also like the SECRET ORIGINS origin, which is a nice embellishment of the first origin, respecting the spirit of Bill Finger and Bob Kane's creation. It's just sad, in the context of the time it came out, since it was like an epitaph for a character that no longer existed.

[bat39]

'TEC 33 but not so much BATMAN 47. The virtue of the first Batman origin story is it's short. It just gives enough details without gilding the lily. The more rope they give themselves, the more likely the writers are to hang themselves.

UNTOLD LEGENDS, as I recall, just took all the origins that had come out up to that point and tried to unify them into one long story. But I didn't like it for having Batman with the yellow oval right from the start. Paul Levitz, I think, said on a text/letter page that they didn't want to confuse new readers--or something like that--which is just silly. Also, it was only three issues long and yet they could only get John Byrne to pencil the first issue? What was up with that? If it's a limited series, then I like the same artist to do all three issues.

I also like the SECRET ORIGINS origin, which is a nice embellishment of the first origin, respecting the spirit of Bill Finger and Bob Kane's creation. It's just sad, in the context of the time it came out, since it was like an epitaph for a character that no longer existed.

Batman # 47's contribution to the ''origin'' as such is mainly revealing Joe Chill's identity - which of course was a big thing. But it is basically the same origin as 'Tec # 33.

I agree with you about the yellow oval in Untold Legends - it was a bit jarring. The ''New Look'' suit, while its a classic, just doesn't scream ''early Batman'' to me. If not the original Bob Kane design, they could at least have stuck with the classic Golden Age/early Silver Age design sans oval. Or a modernized version of that design, which is what we got in Secret Origins # 6.

Secret Origins # 6 is an underrated gem, without a doubt! What I love about it is that it takes the old Golden Age and Silver Age stories and reproduces the facts and events almost verbatim, while using them to frame a whole new narrative and context to the origin. So it turns out, for instance, that Bruce Wayne was busy hanging out with Gordon before ''The Case of the Chemical Syndicate'' in order to apply for a desk job in the GCPD, after the failure of his first mission as Batman! ''Batman'' was basically an experiment for Bruce to figure out if he was cut out for field-work, and it was only after solving the Chemical Syndicate case that he decided to become a vigilante full-time. These are the kind of embellishments that make this retelling stand out. And I agree...its a shame that it was basically an epitaph for the Golden Age Batman

[Jim Kelly]

Batman # 47's contribution to the ''origin'' as such is mainly revealing Joe Chill's identity - which of course was a big thing. But it is basically the same origin as 'Tec # 33.

47 reveals Joe Chill as the killer and shows that Batman caught him, which is good (Bruce should catch the killer of his parents); but it says Martha had a weak heart and died from the shock of seeing Thomas killed, which is bad. It just needlessly complicates things if it's her weak heart what killed her.

[bat39]

47 reveals Joe Chill as the killer and shows that Batman caught him, which is good (Bruce should catch the killer of his parents); but it says Martha had a weak heart and died from the shock of seeing Thomas killed, which is bad. It just needlessly complicates things if it's her weak heart what killed her.

Oh yeah...I tend to forget about that. I honestly don't know what the point of that retcon was...unless they didn't want to show Chill shooting a woman dead on page?

I don't recall off the top of my head how Secret Origins # 6 played it - were both Thomas and Martha shot, or did they go with Thomas being shot and Martha having the heart attack? I seem to think at one point, they made the former the Earth One version and the latter the Earth Two version.

As far as Batman catching Chill goes, I often wonder if his not finding the killer post-Zero Hour was meant to be a rationale for how much more violent and broody Bruce was during that era. Its worth noting that when they reinstated Chill to continuity after IC, it coincided with an effort to tone down some of Bruce's darker tendencies.

[Jim Kelly]

Oh yeah...I tend to forget about that. I honestly don't know what the point of that retcon was...unless they didn't want to show Chill shooting a woman dead on page?

I don't recall off the top of my head how Secret Origins # 6 played it - were both Thomas and Martha shot, or did they go with Thomas being shot and Martha having the heart attack? I seem to think at one point, they made the former the Earth One version and the latter the Earth Two version.

As far as Batman catching Chill goes, I often wonder if his not finding the killer post-Zero Hour was meant to be a rationale for how much more violent and broody Bruce was during that era. Its worth noting that when they reinstated Chill to continuity after IC, it coincided with an effort to tone down some of Bruce's darker tendencies.

I had to look this up and in SECRET ORIGINS 6 it does show that Martha died from heart failure--although she may have suffered a blow struggling with Chill as he took the necklace, so that might have been the cause of the heart attack rather than the shock of seeing Thomas killed and Martha being, you know, a woman and they are all supposed to be weak (that old chestnut).

But in DETECTIVE COMICS 33, and reprinted in BATMAN 1, it clearly shows that Chill plugs her to shut her up. So it seems to me that ought to be the correct continuity for the Earth-Two Batman, yet S.O. 6 wants BATMAN 47 to be the Earth-Two standard, I guess.

If issue 47 was after the Code, then I'd say the change was to reduce the amount of violence, but that issue came out in 1948, well before the Code. So it beats me why Bill Finger made this change.

And in BATMAN 47, Bruce only catches Joe Chill years after his parents' murder, after he's become Batman and after he's teamed with Robin. So if not catching the killer was a rationale for him being a broody pillock, then he should have been morose in all those 1940s comics and he wasn't. Personally, I think that Bruce would not have been so backward in finding the man that snuffed his folks and it's more likely that Chill was brought to justice earlier.