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  1. #31
    Spectacular Member Pattern_Maker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evolutionaryFan View Post
    So the order of the web wants answers from Peter about what exactly? The reason Harry is after Peter (ie OMD etc)?
    The reason Harry dragged them into his plans.

  2. #32
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern_Maker View Post
    The reason Harry dragged them into his plans.
    I thought that was pretty clear since they're all Spider-People.

    I laughed at the Order trying to make it out like they'll remain close and be a group considering how they've functioned in this event .

  3. #33
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    Like how has Harry been able to do all of this!?
    It's not confirmed, but the most logical answer is Mephisto, especially with this story being related to OMD.

  4. #34
    All-New Member Mr. Davis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xpyred View Post
    Reminds me of the beating Spider-Man gave Norman way back in spectacular Spider-Man 250.
    That's exactly what the sequence here reminded me of, too. And given how many clear callbacks we've seen to previous stories, maybe that's intentional. Back then, Norman was setting Peter up so he'd be public enemy number one. He was faking being the legitimate, non-Goblin businessman. Maybe we connect the dots to a logical conclusion that involves current Norman being sinful, Goblin-y Norman even though he says otherwise; a double bluff, basically. I'd actually like that to be the case.

    Also, Spectacular 250 was by DeMatteis. Another reference to one of his more significant stories would make sense.

  5. #35
    Incredible Member stillanerd's Avatar
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    Yeah, like Spider-Gwen, I'm starting to get impatient when it comes to wanting answers at this point. (Even though we all know that One More Day is totally at the heart of this). I also think it's funny that, while The Order, are essentially representing the opinions of the reader, there's no getting around the fact that, from a narrative standpoint, they inserted themselves into this whole thing based on Julia Carpenter's visions which she either a)misinterpreted, or b)withheld crucial information. So they're complaints about "we want answers" is kind of rich. Also, where's Doctor Strange? Still fighting demon MJ in the astral plane?

    Also, also, the mysterious extra body belong to Harry seems like pretty obvious and the one that makes the most sense in light of all the One More Day stuff. However...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawidos View Post
    Maybe Carlie saw... her own body. Therefore terrified of this discovery she made a call to her best friend. Maybe this Carlie who returned to New York and rekindled friendship with Mary Jane is a second Kindred! Maybe at the end of the issue she transformed into her demonic form and her human form wasn't aware of this sinister plan. Maybe that's why Kindred (Harry) locked in a cage is co calm, because on the loose is his accomplice who will continue his plans. What do you think?
    That's the most intriguing theory I've seen yet. Especially we don't see what happens to Carlie after she's interrupted. And, when Peter has those ASM #545 flashbacks of Harry's coming home party, it specifically showed Carlie right beside him also looking rather sinister. The other possibility is that Harry/Kindred's spare centipede (and notice how, in earlier issues since his capture, there was only one centipede? Clever, clever Spencer) has possessed her.
    --Mike McNulty, a.k.a. Stillanerd. Contributor for Bam Smack Pow! and Viral Hare
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  6. #36
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    This story is looking more and more like the clone saga from the 90s. The pacing, the decompression, the multiples issues per month, the dark tone, Peter being all stressed and out of patience, the osborns being involved at a high degree, the mysterious plot points that never get resolved... For me at least, this isn't a good signal.

  7. #37
    Incredible Member stillanerd's Avatar
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    Here's another weird idea: what if Harry transformed into Kindred after discovering his own body? That by seeing his own corpse, he suddenly remembered that he died and that all his "I was convalescing in Europe" was a big fat lie.

    Also, if Spencer wants to get even more meta, what if Harry, while he has false memories and before he became Kindred, subconsciously "recruited" Carlie and Lily Hollister as a means to run interference on Peter to prevent him getting back together with Mary Jane? That's certainly the implication from that ASM #545/Brand New Day flashback. Which makes me wonder if Carlie (and possibly Lily) had some of those Kindred centipedes in their bodies all this time, acting like demonic parasites and bidding their time for the right moment. And since Stanley is Harry and Lily's child...

    --Mike McNulty, a.k.a. Stillanerd. Contributor for Bam Smack Pow! and Viral Hare
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    Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason why it was put up.--G.K. Chesterton

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawidos View Post
    Maybe Carlie saw... her own body. Therefore terrified of this discovery she made a call to her best friend. Maybe this Carlie who returned to New York and rekindled friendship with Mary Jane is a second Kindred! Maybe at the end of the issue she transformed into her demonic form and her human form wasn't aware of this sinister plan. Maybe that's why Kindred (Harry) locked in a cage is co calm, because on the loose is his accomplice who will continue his plans. What do you think?
    Or the Kindred is a possession type deal, centipedes take over other people and make them act in his place.

  9. #39
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tien Long View Post
    Just finished. But I'm torn. I still have all of these questions. Like how has Harry been able to do all of this!? How has he used these Kindred powers? How did he regain his memories? Why is he doing this to Pete and MJ? Argh, just want a clear answer!

    But the writing..............this was good writing here. I was floored by what Pete did to Norman here. Seeing Pete turn away from his responsibility towards others to responsibility for his own needs.......that was interesting.

    Me, I'll probably stick away. Sucker for this writing. But would like to see answers.
    Cosigned, but I'm more of a sucker for Spider-Man in general. Still, this is tantalizing and harrowing enough to keep me hooked until Spencer starts dropping some straight answers in his writing.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by stillanerd View Post
    That's the most intriguing theory I've seen yet. Especially we don't see what happens to Carlie after she's interrupted. And, when Peter has those ASM #545 flashbacks of Harry's coming home party, it specifically showed Carlie right beside him also looking rather sinister. The other possibility is that Harry/Kindred's spare centipede (and notice how, in earlier issues since his capture, there was only one centipede? Clever, clever Spencer) has possessed her.
    Thank you Anyway, I think Carlie will be a pawn/accomplice of Kindred from now and therefore we readers won't find out soon whom body she has seen belongs to. Which leads me to another theory based on your theories

    Quote Originally Posted by stillanerd View Post
    Here's another weird idea: what if Harry transformed into Kindred after discovering his own body? That by seeing his own corpse, he suddenly remembered that he died and that all his "I was convalescing in Europe" was a big fat lie.
    Exactly. It would be an explanation why BND-Harry was so good and friendly to Peter and why he is now a vengeful demon. What if there is a trigger for remembering your life before One More Day, to see a full picture of the current reality. Maybe Carlie experienced the same discovery in the morgue. Now she will be able to change their appearance - showing human face and Kindred mask like Harry, but in each form being aware of the TRUTH.

    And the last question - what if our frustration of not getting answers are caused by in-universe (OMD?) rule that you cannot get them directly? You cannot just tell somebody about the TRUTH. A person needs a shock, an earthquake for his/her soul. Maybe that's why Kindred couldn't plainly say what sin Peter must confess to. Maybe that's why he commited these heinous acts (visions of Mary Jane's death, digging corpses, possesing Spider-People etc.), counting on that they will be a trigger for Peter to see the TRUTH. Maybe the only difference between Peter/Mary Jane and Harry/Carlie is that the second ones were dead before OMD and in the new reality these triggers caused their transformation into demons, because their existence is purely supernatural and connected to the deal with Mephisto.
    Last edited by Dawidos; 01-13-2021 at 03:45 PM.

  11. #41
    Incredible Member Thundershot's Avatar
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    Man, I’d love it if Spidey 2099 was still around in 616 so he could be part of this group.

  12. #42
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    I'm not a fan of all these unresolved mysteries piling up one upon another, however, I have enjoyed the last few issues immensely so I'll give Spencer a pass and trust him that there will be an adequate payoff (eventually). Another solid issue, good work Nick et al.
    Last edited by Celgress; 01-13-2021 at 05:05 PM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  13. #43
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3pointshooter View Post
    Feels like Tim king’s Batman run with Bane concluding with the same #100 issue. My only beef is where is Doctor Strange?
    It does feel like there's plenty of run left.

    There was another thread that asked how Spencer's run rates with others. One thing I was wondering was whether we could evaluate a section of his run as something standalone.

    For Stan Lee, his work with Ditko differs from his work with Romita. For Michelinie, we can evaluate his runs with McFarlane, Larsen and Bagley.

    With JMS, we can consider how he was with Romita Jr and with later artists (Deodato, Garney.) You could also make a case that there was a bigger divide when Spider-Man joined the New Avengers.

    Dan Slott's run falls into distinct eras. The Big Time. Superior Spider-Man. Parker Industries.

    I was wondering if Spencer's run could be split with one section ending at Last Remains. But the last two issues were clearly part of that.

    However, does this issue function as a cutoff? Bagley's sticking around as an artist, and the next stuff is paying off of earlier plot threads.

    There seems to be a new costume and direction kicking off in a few issues, so maybe that's when it starts.

    Spencer's run might be similar to Tom King's, in that it is tough to determine when to split it.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Dan Slott's run falls into distinct eras. The Big Time. Superior Spider-Man. Parker Industries.
    Where does BND fall in Slott's run. It's weird how literally everyone seems to be omitting it.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Where does BND fall in Slott's run. It's weird how literally everyone seems to be omitting it.
    I'm guessing because he was only one of the writers from that run? BND had also Gale, Guggenheim, Kelly, Van Lente, Waid, and Wells working as regular writers.

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