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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by MouserGrey View Post
    Just like Swan is doing, riding the wheel to the end. the Illuminati are not going to find a solution and neither is anyone they ask for help. Hickman is exploring the morals of these characters in a no win situation. They all know there is no solution, including Namor. In fact, Namor realized this before the others. The others just realized it last issue. Namor is just riding the wheel along with the Swan. Sooner or later he will sacrifice 616 just like all the other realities heroes viewed through the mirror. Destroy to many worlds and sooner or later you don't really care about your own. Destroy to many lives and soon you don't care about your own. That is going to be shown in the story I predict.
    Which falls in line with the theory that, if Namor is to die, then it'll from him asking for it him self. He'll never willingly abandon his people, but if someone was to have him beaten, broken, bloody, and at their mercy he wouldn't exactly fight his fate at that point.

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    at least they are doing something
    Yet one of the long time defenses of the Illuminati on this board was that they were looking for other solutions and they were not just planning on killing every other incurring world. And would people please stop talking tough. Out of all the posters on this board maybe 1% would be able to kill an entire planet. Ive seen people who were being shot at curl up in a ball and cry in Iraq. Killing 8 billion people is not natural no matter the reason. I hope Namor eventually gets over the PTSD his actions will bring him later in life.

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchist View Post
    APocalypse and Dormammu?
    Those 2 guys are pure evil, no way they'll ever cooperate^^
    Hell, Apocalypse would probably applaud the destruction, because of his *Survival of the fittest* and all.
    Dormammu would probably also cheer, he can chill and watch from the dark dimension when Earth finally goes boom.

    Kang, Loki and Zemo though?
    I could see that.
    There's still the chair situation. Yeah, we know Thanos and Doom get two of the chairs without debate, but who gets the other five...

    That may be the fight destroys Earth 616.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaosfist View Post
    Yet one of the long time defenses of the Illuminati on this board was that they were looking for other solutions and they were not just planning on killing every other incurring world. And would people please stop talking tough. Out of all the posters on this board maybe 1% would be able to kill an entire planet. Ive seen people who were being shot at curl up in a ball and cry in Iraq. Killing 8 billion people is not natural no matter the reason. I hope Namor eventually gets over the PTSD his actions will bring him later in life.
    Has nothing to do with talking tough; we're just saying what the Illuminati have been saying for many issues, they just gotta get their sh*t in order.

  5. #200
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    One thing that does puzzle me, nuclear bombs are all keyed or locked to prevent accidental explosions, why wouldn't they put that same sort of safeguard on a planet killer?

  6. #201
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    Which sadly will probably be forgotten by the characters in 2 to 3 issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrTraveler View Post
    Yep. And there's something I think folks are missing. When your life bread is your mental ingenuity, then your state of mind can very much impact your ability to function. After what happened with the Great Society I can't imagine that Reed, Bruce, Hank, Tony, et. al. were in any frame of mind to find a solution in 8 hours. Sure they could take down the next planet, and the next, etc, but if the Incursions were going to start happening that fast they'd never find a permanent solution and they'd never get back to a mindset that would let them find a way out.

    I still think the Illuminati will find a way out of this mess (though knowing Hickman it won't involve putting boot to face). But they wouldn't have found it in the next 8 hour incursion. With the Cabal in play, they can move past what happened, change mental state, and get down to the brass tacks of the underlying problem.

    If we're making guesses about it all ends, I'm guessing that in the end, in the very very end, the Avengers fail and the Rogue Planet ends up bailing them out of the game. The Incursions go on, but with the 616 removed from the part of the multiverse infected. This story isn't feeling like it's going to end in triumph. This ultimately is feeling like a classical tragedy.

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelAngel0 View Post
    Has nothing to do with talking tough; we're just saying what the Illuminati have been saying for many issues, they just gotta get their sh*t in order.
    Saying you would have no problem killing 8 billion people to save yourself is talking tough. Not having empathy and compassion for those that couldnt do it is talking tough. Like I said killing people is an unnatural act. Why do you think soldiers get PTSD and still see the faces of the people they kill years later?

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    No one knows there isn't a solution... that's merely something some characters may choose to be believe and some may not. It's not like Hickman himself teleported himself into the book to tell the characters that they are gonna fail.

    They don't know for sure they will suceed or fail here anymore than they do in the dozens of other times the world or universe or multiverse were in peril. There's no way they can know.
    You are right. Hickman did not tell the characters, he has told us. Multiple times. There is no solution and time is almost up with the pace he is writing the story at. There is that 8 month jump. But what we see is what we get. The answer is in the story somewhere. Not the solution the characters are hoping for, but the answers we are as readers searching for. That speech Reed keeps giving in the comics is not actually repeated in the 616 reality. It is printed again and again for us, the readers benefit. Everything is going to die and Hickman is revealing what he thinks these characters are made of in the rest of the narrative.
    Reality is for those who are afraid of science fiction.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    One thing that does puzzle me, nuclear bombs are all keyed or locked to prevent accidental explosions, why wouldn't they put that same sort of safeguard on a planet killer?
    They did, as it has to be armed and that seems to take a bit of time and then there's still the need of a detonator, or it's useless.

    Too bad Maximus, Black Swan, and Thanos are geniuses that can easily get thru any security the Illuminati put up.
    Last edited by MichaelAngel0; 08-20-2014 at 12:57 PM.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaosfist View Post
    Saying you would have no problem killing 8 billion people to save yourself is talking tough. Not having empathy and compassion for those that couldnt do it is talking tough. Like I said killing people is an unnatural act. Why do you think soldiers get PTSD and still see the faces of the people they kill years later?
    It's not talking "tough" it's stating facts man.

    Your argument also ignores the fact that if soldiers deiced to not to fight because they have to do terrible things, the people they are sworn to protect will suffer as a consequence. Consequence that may lead to death.

    Ergo your example has holes in it.
    Last edited by Trident; 08-20-2014 at 12:58 PM.

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaosfist View Post
    Saying you would have no problem killing 8 billion people to save yourself is talking tough. Not having empathy and compassion for those that couldnt do it is talking tough. Like I said killing people is an unnatural act. Why do you think soldiers get PTSD and still see the faces of the people they kill years later?
    Actually, killing is a natural act. The law of nature is survival of the fittest. Humans are still animals, and animals kill each other for survival all the time.

    It's just that some species, like humans, have evolved to the point where they can decide whether, or not, it is a moral, or immoral, act and in which scenarios such ideals become secondary, or a hindrance.

    Remember, not all soldiers get PTSD.
    Last edited by MichaelAngel0; 08-20-2014 at 12:56 PM.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelAngel0 View Post
    Which falls in line with the theory that, if Namor is to die, then it'll from him asking for it him self. He'll never willingly abandon his people, but if someone was to have him beaten, broken, bloody, and at their mercy he wouldn't exactly fight his fate at that point.
    I believe he will abandon his people after destroying too many earths. Namor has incredible endurance, beyond most characters. But when he does get tired I think he will make a mistake or just not care anymore. Destroying planets over and over again with Thanos whispering in his ear will break Namor. According to what I think Hickman is going to write.
    Reality is for those who are afraid of science fiction.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trident View Post
    It's not talking "tough" it's stating facts man.

    Your argument also ignores the fact that if soldiers deiced to not to fight because they have to do terrible things, the people they are sworn to protect will suffer as a consequence. Consequence that may lead to death.

    Ergo your example has wholes in it.
    Yup, much truth here.

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by MouserGrey View Post
    You are right. Hickman did not tell the characters, he has told us. Multiple times. There is no solution and time is almost up with the pace he is writing the story at. There is that 8 month jump. But what we see is what we get. The answer is in the story somewhere. Not the solution the characters are hoping for, but the answers we are as readers searching for. That speech Reed keeps giving in the comics is not actually repeated in the 616 reality. It is printed again and again for us, the readers benefit. Everything is going to die and Hickman is revealing what he thinks these characters are made of in the rest of the narrative.
    If we wanna go all meta on this truthfully I don't entirely buy the notion from Hickman saying there's no solution. It obviously WILL be resolved. The marvel universe will almost certainly continue on for the most part like this story didn't happen. However Hickman chooses to hype this story up, it's definately NOT the last days for any of these characters.

  15. #210
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    So Namor's idea seemed more about survival then fixing the actual problem.

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