New Avengers #23 (spoilers)

[KOSLOX]

Just think of what Steve will say when he connects the dots. "Wait a minute. Tony told me he'd have Thanos secured..."

Yeah, this whole series is making me think of that line from Varsity Blues:

"You got to be the dumbest smart kid I know."

[Global Honored]

Wait, what? In real life if a prison break happened and a group of criminals killed people would you say the warden is indirectly responsible for murder?

I can agree that it would show a level of incomptence regarding security but that's about as far as it goes.

If I was a warden who put Thanos, Terrax and Black Swan together in my own private cell w/o anyone else on Earth knowing about it and then made a mortal enemy out of a guy that has the key and he helped release them to do what we already knew he was capable of doing...then yes, I would say I am responsible for personally fixing the situation.

The Illuminati's hands are not clean. No one is a clear cut hero in this scenario. If the Illuminati take the responsibility of saving the universe, and building world destroying bombs w/o telling anyone what they are up to...then yes, they have to share responsibility when their plans backfire and fail...leading to the current situation.

Now obviously they didn't kill another Earth themselves but right now, they are the only men who know what is going on and they are responsible for stopping it (or finding a better way)

I am not saying Namor hasn't gone a bit rogue here b/c he definitely has. He has now gone in to a very dangerous alliance. But the Illuminati's hands aren't clean. This is the continuation of a device they personally created. Now it goes on w/o their blessing. A monster on the loose.

[Trident]

Wait, what? In real life if a prison break happened and a group of criminals killed people would you say the warden is indirectly responsible for murder?

I can agree that it would show a level of incomptence regarding security but that's about as far as it goes.

It's called personal responsibility. If the actions or inaction's of the Warden led or did nothing to prevent the prison break then he holds some responsibility of what happens next as well as any punishment that comes is due to those actions.

Decrease in pay, loose of job, or even possible imprisonment of his own.

But I doubt by the end of this the Illuminati will suffer hardly any concrete consequences. A few characters in particular we can bet are immune all together. *Glares at Reed*

[MindofShadow]

Can we get a new book titled "Dark Avengers" with the Cabal PLEASE???


I need interactions between Thanos, Swan, Namor, and Maximus NOW!!!


GIVE US A THREE WAY TITLE HICKMAN... AVENGERS, NEW AVENGERS, DARK AVENGERS PLS!!!!



The Illuminati is severely underpowered if they are going to try and stop the Cabal. Severely.

[Global Honored]

Can we get a new book titled "Dark Avengers" with the Cabal PLEASE???


I need interactions between Thanos, Swan, Namor, and Maximus NOW!!!


GIVE US A THREE WAY TITLE HICKMAN... AVENGERS, NEW AVENGERS, DARK AVENGERS PLS!!!!



The Illuminati is severely underpowered if they are going to try and stop the Cabal. Severely.

Yes, the new Cabal is crazy powerful. I can't wait to see more from them.

Don't count out the Illuminati yet. They have a Hulk. Doc Strange, and based on what we saw in this issue there is the possibility of adding some Doom. It is gonna be a helluva fight.

[KOSLOX]

Yes, the new Cabal is crazy powerful. I can't wait to see more from them.

Don't count out the Illuminati yet. They have a Hulk. Doc Strange, and based on what we saw in this issue there is the possibility of adding some Doom.

The thought of a guy named Doom helping end multiversal annihilation is endlessly amusing.

[MindofShadow]

Yes, the new Cabal is crazy powerful. I can't wait to see more from them.

Don't count out the Illuminati yet. They have a Hulk. Doc Strange, and based on what we saw in this issue there is the possibility of adding some Doom. It is gonna be a helluva fight.

Hulk and Thor at the same time couldn't stop Thanos in Infinity.

I guess Strange is always a wild card though.

[KOSLOX]

It's called personal responsibility. If the actions or inaction's of the Warden led or did nothing to prevent the prison break then he holds some responsibility of what happens next as well as any punishment that comes is due to those actions.

Decrease in pay, loose of job, or even possible imprisonment of his own.

But I doubt by the end of this the Illuminati will suffer hardly any concrete consequences. A few characters in particular we can bet are immune all together. *Glares at Reed*

Funny you should say that in an argument over whether Namor is personally responsible for his own actions.

As for the second part, sure, but none of those would be coupled with a murder charge.

[Global Honored]

The though of a guy named Doom helping end multiversal annihilation is endlessly amusing.

I know right.
Who is on the list? Let's see... Superman, Capt. Marvel, Wonder-Man....who do we need to save the day....we need our Doooooom

Hulk and Thor at the same time couldn't stop Thanos in Infinity.

I guess Strange is always a wild card though.

They will need some backup. Doom helps. I am not sure if The Avengers are returning their calls though.

Funny you should say that in an argument over whether Namor is personally responsible for his own actions.

As for the second part, sure, but none of those would be coupled with a murder charge.

Namor is responsible for sure. He doesn't get immunity just b/c the Illuminati had a hand in creating the situation. He has to own his own choices. For better or worse. I think the character is doing so.

[XPac]

Honestly the Illuminati bothered me more than Namors crew.

Sitting around and doing nothing while 2 universes end up being destroyed is ridiculous. If they're not going to bother even TRYING to stop this thing, at LEAST try and organize the other heroes to step and do something.

Namor's alternative is a hell of a lot better than the Illuminati's "let everyone die" approach to the problem.

[Mahes]

Hulk and Thor at the same time couldn't stop Thanos in Infinity.

I guess Strange is always a wild card though.

Well considering what Strange did to the Great Society anything is possible but I don't think we'll see him do that again. The cost is way too high for him to pull that. Although he could be going to the Black Priest sides. November NA solicit did show all the masks.

But yeah...the Illuminati has a serious power gap against the Cabal.

[Mahes]

I know right.
Who is on the list? Let's see... Superman, Capt. Marvel, Wonder-Man....who do we need to save the day....we need our Doooooom

All hope lies in Doom!!!!

[XPac]

Yes, the new Cabal is crazy powerful. I can't wait to see more from them.

Don't count out the Illuminati yet. They have a Hulk. Doc Strange, and based on what we saw in this issue there is the possibility of adding some Doom. It is gonna be a helluva fight.

Honestly you can make the arguement that Thanos alone can take the Illuminati and the rest of the Cabal solo. In any given situation where he's on the field and not just sitting on a hover chair as a spectator, team Thanos has the edge.

Unless Strange goes into uber plot device mode. Which is a possibility.

Really, I think it would fall on the main Avengers team to tackle the Cabal. They've got a Star Brand and a Captain Universe (Thor's no slouch either). If we see the Avengers at full force, that should be enough to even get Thanos to rethink standing his ground. Though Captain Universe is sort of undependable in these sort of things.

[Ravin' Ray]

All hope lies in Doom!!!!

Heh, you're quoting Hickman in FF there!
But seriously, he's done it before. Willing to do anything and everything to save Franklin Richard's world.

[MouserGrey]

Haven't got my comic yet, but shouldn't another incursion be coming in just a few hours if they are supposed to keep coming faster? And if so, can the Cabal go on indefinitely? I mean won't they get fatigued at some point and maybe make a mistake and go to slow? If that is actually what is supposed to happen, would you rather have a pile of bodies (earths) around you that in the end could not be glorified cause, you know, everything died, or would you rather go have a beer, hug a loved one, finally wake up and smell the coffee and flowers, test drive that one car, watch the sunrise or sunset, pet your cat, walk your dog, order your favorite pizza, make love, f@#$ the S#!t out of your partner, a glass of wine, one more attempt to get your bike up that one hill, take up painting, start a charity, crochet.......