New Avengers #23 (spoilers)

[KOSLOX]

except that's not entirely true is it? based on the subsequent events, namor seems to be the only member left active. all of the rest of them quit their jobs, to go off and do whatever until death came for them. they do not have the authority to oust anyone.

Well they were never really a chartered team to begin with so "ousting" doesn't really mean much. Basically, telling him to leave was just, "We don't want to talk to you go away."

[AcesX1X]

Well they were never really a chartered team to begin with so "ousting" doesn't really mean much. Basically, telling him to leave was just, "We don't want to talk to you go away."

on this i agree, spear of bashenga.

[Trident]

Actually, if you look at the page before the one where Tony tells Namor "Leave, now!", you'll see that he told Namor "Get out of here, Namor" after the T'Challa vs Namor fight and Namor's statement that he sent Thanos to Wakanda. Him saying "Leave, now!" was therefore simply a repetition with emphasis added - his call for Namor to leave wasn't caused by Namor's statement "we are all monsters now". In fact, Dr. Strange even said at the beginning of the issue "Monsters, Namor? Haven't we secretly always been?", and Stark didn't tell him to leave.

I see an acknowledge that page but at the same time I still think the "Leave Now" was more for him calling them out. But yeah looking back I must have missed it....

[People Of The Earth]

Furthermore, I also agree that the Cabal won't be the ones to solve the problem, however, they are the ones who made it possible for the problem to be solved, since the Illuminati decided to let the universe die twice in a row.

You couldn't be more mistaken.

The Cabal saved their Earth and both universes, yes.

But, had both universes crashed into each other and died, the Incursions would still be going on their business for all the remnant universes in the multiverse.
The root problem would still be there, not any closer to be resolved.
All they did was prolongate what's more and more looking like the final moments of an agony...
Period.
Which leads me to my other remark: you saying they bought time for finding a solution.
Bought time for who ? The Illuminati ?

Please.

The arrogance in thinking the Illuminati are the only ones able to solve this problem.
They are not.
They are so out of their depth, it's getting ridiculous at this point of the story.
This truth litterally blew up in their collective faces in the last few issues.
The last issue illustrated perfectly well how distraught and powerless they were actually.

People need to understand this : Earth is a tiny blue planet in a galaxy - no, an universe - filled of star-spanning civilizations, inter-dimensional beings and cosmical entities as old as the universe itself.

The brightest minds on Earth are just exactly that: the brightest minds on Earth.

If a solution ever had to be found to this problem, it would more likely come from anywhere else but Earth.
Heck, superior entities should be the one tackling the Incursions...
Fact is, if the rest of the 616-universe ever learn about the Incursion, a coalition of alien forces will come wipe out the Earth out of the cosmic map, and no one will be able to prevent it this time around.
The incursion problem would still be going on in the rest of the multiverse, but 616 would be in the clear at the very least.

Anyway.

The Cabal.

-Namor doesn't want to go "quietly" before his time.
His pride is speaking right there, not his empathy - this is not about saving people, this is about staying true to who he is at its core: an unwavering fighter.
-Thanos is in this for only one reason: the time gem, who, to his knowledge, is still hidden on Earth.
Finding it would allow him to get ahold of the other gems down the line, and in order to do that, he cannot allow Earth to disappear.
Not yet.
That's the only rational in-story reason that would motivate him not to scourge Namor, then the Earth, for what happened in Infinity.
-Proxima and Corvus will go wherever Thanos goes, only slower.
-As for the Swan, destroying worlds is what she's been doing for a long time now.
Of course, she's probably up to something, scheming with Maximus and all...
Still: she has an incentive in helping Namor obliterating over worlds and their respective populations.
-Terrax being the herald of an alternate Galactus, he was both familiar with worlds extinction and the Incursions issue. This is who he is: a destroyer.
-Out of this crowd, only Maximus seems to be a random fit.

I fully expect this group to collapse down the line: too many varying interests, shadow agendas and madness in it.
The attempts to pass what they are doing for something "right", while the Illuminati are "wrong" are completely off the mark and defeat the purpose of this story.
This is not a right or wrong story.
This is not a good vs evil story.
This is not a win or lose story.
I conjure people who actually believe this story to fit any of the above parameters to go do some back reading of their issues.

I also laugh at the notion of "heroism" being thrown around the now repeated act of genocide on two inhabited worlds, with the extermination of billions.
Namor did what was necessary, and what was necessary is actually tragic.
The end.

The rest is just fandoms going at war all over again...

[TresDias]

---

Prople of the Earth, who has said that the solution will definitely come from Earth? If it comes from anyone in the 616 universe, then Namor and the Cabal bought the time needed to find it. Because they saved the whole of the 616.

The results of all this for the universe-at-large keep being forgotten in here.

[Iron Maiden]

I think that bears repeating.... it's not just one Earth being saved. You are saving a universe with all its galaxies, solar systems, and planets. It is because the Earths are at the point of Incursion that it became a problem dumped in the Illuminati's lap. Probably the Skrulls, Kree, Shi'ar etc aren't even aware of it, at least not that we've seen.

Here' s a thought. I wonder if the Negative Zone is exempt??

[People Of The Earth]

Prople of the Earth, who has said that the solution sill definitely come from Earth? If it comes from anyone in the 616 universe, then Namor and the Cabal bought the time needed to find it. Because they saved the whole of the 616.

The results of all this for the universe-at-large keep being forgotten in here.

Not at all.
"they are the ones who made it possible for the problem to be solved"
I answered to this statement.
And I answered by saying "no, this is false".

This is a multiversal issue.

The Cabal saving or not saving Earth-616 in this issue wouldn't "make the problem possible to be solved" all of a sudden. To think that is to imply that, effectively, only the Illuminati are able to solve it, or only 616 as you are pointing out in your post, a notion that I refute.
Not only are there smarter, more capable individuals or entities in 616 able to tackle the Incursions, there are smarter, more capable individuals or entities able to tackle the Incursions in each of the universe being part of the multiverse.
The Cabal saved their Earth and two universes. Among an infinity of them. That is all.

[AcesX1X]

they are the only ones making it possible for the problem to be solved. you can't solve a problem if you are dead.

[People Of The Earth]

they are the only ones making it possible for the problem to be solved. you can't solve a problem if you are dead.

No, they are not.
Again, the Illuminati aren't the only capable...Did you actually take the time to READ my post before answering ?

[AcesX1X]

of course i did. you said they are not making it possible for the problem to be solved. i told you that the cabal were the only ones making it possible for the problem to be solved.

[Emma's Midriff]

People of the Earth is mistaken. The Cabal kept the universe from ending. That's what they did.

You are right, however, that the solution might not come from this universe, nor have anything to do with the characters in the book, but I'm not sure I agree.

If, however, any Earth heroes, or anyone from this universe, do end up playing a role to stop the incursions, then my point stands. The Cabal made it possible.

[People Of The Earth]

of course i did. you said they are not making it possible for the problem to be solved. i told you that the cabal were the only ones making it possible for the problem to be solved.

The Cabal saved their Earth, they didn't save the multiverse.
How can you therefore say they are the only ones making it possible for the problem to be solved ?
Or are you implying only 616 can solve the problem of Incursion ?
Bottom line, you didn't actually read what was in my post.

[AcesX1X]

The Cabal saved their Earth, they didn't save the multiverse.
How can you therefore say they are the only ones making it possible for the problem to be solved ?
Or are you implying only 616 can solve the problem of Incursion ?
Bottom line, you didn't actually read what was in my post.

i'm going to ignore your rude comments in the last sentence you wrote.

the incursions are happening and the 616 is directly involved. period. if there is a solution beyond that, then it isn't related to the 616 from a story standpoint.

[Emma's Midriff]

PotE, we can just agree to disagree on whether or not 616 heroes will have a role in stopping the incursions.

I would argue that the book being about them kind of hints that they will, but that's just me.

[Iron Maiden]

The Cabal saved their Earth, they didn't save the multiverse.

They didn't just save their Earth. They saved two universes, one of which is missing one planet, their own Earth,

How can you therefore say they are the only ones making it possible for the problem to be solved ?
Or are you implying only 616 can solve the problem of Incursion ?

So far, they seem to be the one of the few that have survived now that they beat out the Great Society. The incursions have a cascading effect and could eventually destroy everything is what I am getting out of Reed's explanation, along with what info they gathered from Black Swan.