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  1. #751
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaokhaN View Post
    Like others have said, you'd have to see how powering her up/using her capabilities in conjunction with others' might work.


    They used the IG terribly. Having Franklin create a duplicate Earth and move people there would be completely different from trying to fight the incursion itself. I've said myself in the past that Franklin probably doesn't have a good enough mastery of his powers to achieve this, but it'd be worth looking into what could be done.


    Better to have her help find a solution than have her die because they haven't found anything and gave up ,-)


    Perhaps not a secret to anyone else, but having a few other people help wouldn't hurt as long as the secret doesn't get completely out.
    Wanda could barely teleport just the mutant race, so her doing more than a few thousand is gonna be very tough imo. That will cause a scenario where they will have to choose. Also, she's a random variable that they can't control, that could f*ck them over if she's too stressed out.

    We don't know how the Great Society used their Forever Glass, so really it seems that any use of such items could be a one-time use.
    Last edited by MichaelAngel0; 08-24-2014 at 11:20 AM.

  2. #752
    Mighty Member hawkeyefan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaokhaN View Post
    Like others have said, you'd have to see how powering her up/using her capabilities in conjunction with others' might work.


    They used the IG terribly. Having Franklin create a duplicate Earth and move people there would be completely different from trying to fight the incursion itself. I've said myself in the past that Franklin probably doesn't have a good enough mastery of his powers to achieve this, but it'd be worth looking into what could be done.


    Better to have her help find a solution than have her die because they haven't found anything and gave up ,-)


    Perhaps not a secret to a few other people, but having some other people help wouldn't hurt as long as the secret doesn't get completely out.
    I forget from Hickman's FF, but was anyone even aware that Franklin's abilities returned? Besides his future self and his grandfather, I mean.

  3. #753
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    All they really needed was for Forge and Iron Man to work together, trust me when I say together I have no doubts those 2 could accomplish anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyefan View Post
    I forget from Hickman's FF, but was anyone even aware that Franklin's abilities returned? Besides his future self and his grandfather, I mean.
    I didn't even know Franklin's abilities returned when did that happen?

  4. #754
    Mighty Member hawkeyefan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochedalaix View Post
    All they really needed was for Forge and Iron Man to work together, trust me when I say together I have no doubts those 2 could accomplish anything.



    I didn't even know Franklin's abilities returned when did that happen?
    During Hickman's run on Fantastic Four and FF. It's shown that he's creating a mini-universe in his closet. I won't go into more detail than that for fear of spoiling it any further for you or anyone else who hasn't read it. Sorry if I spoiled it at all for you.

  5. #755
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochedalaix View Post
    All they really needed was for Forge and Iron Man to work together, trust me when I say together I have no doubts those 2 could accomplish anything.



    I didn't even know Franklin's abilities returned when did that happen?
    I think the general rule of thing for this sort of thing is if Reed can't do something, then from a scientific/tech standpoint it probably can't be done by anyone on earth.

    Not to belittle anything Forge or Stark have done, but Reed is usually shown to be on another level than his peers.

  6. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyefan View Post
    During Hickman's run on Fantastic Four and FF. It's shown that he's creating a mini-universe in his closet. I won't go into more detail than that for fear of spoiling it any further for you or anyone else who hasn't read it. Sorry if I spoiled it at all for you.
    Feel free to spoil it all for me send me a message or something I'm done with the FF and Franklin Richards they disgust me.

  7. #757

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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyefan View Post
    I think it's totally a case of arrogance on their part; that was their initial mistake which led to this point. I think that's one of the main concepts being examined in this story.

    But, at the same time, I can totally understand their arrogance. Each of them has already, in a variety of ways, taken it upon themselves to speak and act on behalf of the majority. To decide things for the world. So in this case, it probably wasn't a difficult thing to decide. In their own minds, who is better equipped to deal with this problem than them?

    I think that in the end, the only way they will reach some sort of solution is by involving others, whether it be Doom or Amadaeys Cho or Captain Britain or Cap's Avengers. Likely all of those, really. I don't really see the Illuminati continuing on after this story ends.

    What I find really refreshing is that none of us here know how this will end. Most of us expect that the good guys will win out...it's a superhero comic, so it seems likely....but that's not even agreed upon 100%. Some people think the universe will end, others think there will be a reboot of some sort. And even if the heroes do prove successful in some way, the how of it seems totally up in the air.

    I find that great. We really don't know exactly what to expect next in this book.
    I think it's interesting when the world is under threat, only three actual rulers, all of them unelected or now deposed, are making decisions that effect every other nation on Earth. Atillan is on American land now and Black Bolt is still considered to likely be dead with only Maximus knowing for sure that isn't true, T'Challa is not actually a monarch of Wakanda anymore, he's basically the ruler of a wasteland city, Namor's people have been slaughtered by the Wakandans and in New Warriors by the High Evolutionary's robots. No actual currently empowered world leaders have been consulted with only Doom knowing for certain what is going on because the Incursion that occurred over Latveria and the piece of another Earth that he collected. No consultation with any Presidents or Prime Ministers, no NATO or G20 emergency summits... if this does become become public knowledge at some point, I am genuinely curious how they expect to get away with this kind of action superseding the authorities that exist and have actual assigned national or international powers. Namor, T'Challa and Black Bolt can claim diplomatic immunity at best, Dr Strange can claim as Sorceror Supreme some sort of similar status but Stark, Reed and Beast would be charged with crimes against humanity to go before The Hague for making world killer bombs and acting above the authorities they should defer to as U.S. Citizens. If they took Reed's kids away recently because of an incident at the Baxter Building involving a portal to other dimensions, privately making those kinds of weapons of mass destruction in collaboration with other nations involvement, then storing them in Africa and using them after covertly invading Latveria, which is meant to be in Europe... that seems like it'd be a serious matter with serious consequences. Obviously I very much doubt they'll go down that route but it does seem like going off world indefinitely would be their only way to avoid incarceration. If it did come to light the entire universe almost ended because of their actions, even going off world might not be helpful since the Shi'ar and Skrulls have come to Earth to put Jean Grey and Reed up on charges before.

    I'm actually wondering about the nature of the Incursions and the visibility of the other planet as it nears Eath 616. Obviously if it if close enough, tangible debris from the blast can land on Earth but is it only observable to those with the devices in their hands? I mean, if we can observe an eclipse, you'd think more people would notice another Earth appearing in the galaxy, particularly NASA. I'm a little confused about that aspect of this story. How visible are these parallel Earths to a layman?

  8. #758
    Senior Member ShaokhaN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelAngel0 View Post
    We don't know how the Great Society used their Forever Glass, so really it seems that any use of such items could be a one-time use.
    Yes, but the GS used it in a manner related to the incursion as well. There is no reason why the IG wouldn't be perfectly capable of creating a duplicate Earth and transferring everyone on it, without the gems destroying themselves, since that's something in-universe, as opposed to incursion tampering.
    Last edited by ShaokhaN; 08-24-2014 at 04:17 PM.

  9. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyefan View Post
    During Hickman's run on Fantastic Four and FF. It's shown that he's creating a mini-universe in his closet. I won't go into more detail than that for fear of spoiling it any further for you or anyone else who hasn't read it. Sorry if I spoiled it at all for you.
    You have an actual issue number?

  10. #760
    Senior Member ShaokhaN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZNOP View Post
    You have an actual issue number?
    Future Foundation #23 is an epilogue to Hickman's arc and you see Franklin enjoying himself in his pocket universe in his closet.

    edit: also in Fantastic four #600, towards the end of the issue (that's before the end of the arc).
    Last edited by ShaokhaN; 08-24-2014 at 04:03 PM.

  11. #761
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    and now we wait a month for the next issue :/

  12. #762
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    Quote Originally Posted by PocketfulofKryptonite View Post
    I think it's interesting when the world is under threat, only three actual rulers, all of them unelected or now deposed, are making decisions that effect every other nation on Earth. Atillan is on American land now and Black Bolt is still considered to likely be dead with only Maximus knowing for sure that isn't true, T'Challa is not actually a monarch of Wakanda anymore, he's basically the ruler of a wasteland city, Namor's people have been slaughtered by the Wakandans and in New Warriors by the High Evolutionary's robots. No actual currently empowered world leaders have been consulted with only Doom knowing for certain what is going on because the Incursion that occurred over Latveria and the piece of another Earth that he collected. No consultation with any Presidents or Prime Ministers, no NATO or G20 emergency summits... if this does become become public knowledge at some point, I am genuinely curious how they expect to get away with this kind of action superseding the authorities that exist and have actual assigned national or international powers. Namor, T'Challa and Black Bolt can claim diplomatic immunity at best, Dr Strange can claim as Sorceror Supreme some sort of similar status but Stark, Reed and Beast would be charged with crimes against humanity to go before The Hague for making world killer bombs and acting above the authorities they should defer to as U.S. Citizens. If they took Reed's kids away recently because of an incident at the Baxter Building involving a portal to other dimensions, privately making those kinds of weapons of mass destruction in collaboration with other nations involvement, then storing them in Africa and using them after covertly invading Latveria, which is meant to be in Europe... that seems like it'd be a serious matter with serious consequences. Obviously I very much doubt they'll go down that route but it does seem like going off world indefinitely would be their only way to avoid incarceration. If it did come to light the entire universe almost ended because of their actions, even going off world might not be helpful since the Shi'ar and Skrulls have come to Earth to put Jean Grey and Reed up on charges before.
    Would it not be more accurate to say "the entire universe was saved because of their actions"? In light of that, I'm quite confident that, should any of these guys go on trial, any transgressions would be forgiven.

    Quote Originally Posted by PocketfulofKryptonite
    I'm actually wondering about the nature of the Incursions and the visibility of the other planet as it nears Eath 616. Obviously if it if close enough, tangible debris from the blast can land on Earth but is it only observable to those with the devices in their hands? I mean, if we can observe an eclipse, you'd think more people would notice another Earth appearing in the galaxy, particularly NASA. I'm a little confused about that aspect of this story. How visible are these parallel Earths to a layman?
    I believe it was in the first issue of this series that it established that the approaching Earth is only visible within the "Incursion Point." Outside that area, everything appears normal.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaokhaN View Post
    Yes, but the GS used it in a manner related to the incursion as well. There is no reason why the IG wouldn't be perfectly capable of creating a duplicate Earth and transferring everyone on it, without the gems destroying themselves, since that's something in-universe, as opposed to incursion tampering.
    Unless the nature of the Incursions causes any use of Infinity Gems/Forever Glass/longevity trinkets to shatter them on the first use, which seems to be the case. We know that the Great Society simply used their combined Forever Glass, the Wishing Box, to move their Earth out of phase rather than as an instrument directed at the Incursions or at the other universe -- and it still shattered.

  13. #763

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    Quote Originally Posted by TresDias View Post
    Would it not be more accurate to say "the entire universe was saved because of their actions"? In light of that, I'm quite confident that, should any of these guys go on trial, any transgressions would be forgiven.



    I believe it was in the first issue of this series that it established that the approaching Earth is only visible within the "Incursion Point." Outside that area, everything appears normal.



    Unless the nature of the Incursions causes any use of Infinity Gems/Forever Glass/longevity trinkets to shatter them on the first use, which seems to be the case. We know that the Great Society simply used their combined Forever Glass, the Wishing Box, to move their Earth out of phase rather than as an instrument directed at the Incursions or at the other universe -- and it still shattered.
    The alternate universe Builders stated the 616 Earth's destruction could avert all future incursions. The 616 Builders were the people that instigated the Infinity invasion.

    The Shi'ar considered killing a teen Jean Grey for her future version's actions, only discouraged by the idea that she may know better and act differently in a parallel future now she knows better. That the face universal destruction by siding with the Earth forces against the current universe builders who were basically trying to initiate an in universe incursion to avoid multiversal incursions... I think they'd be pretty damn mad their forces were rallied against the Builders rather than the real threat to the universe and possibly the multiverse which includes the parallel future of a preserved Shi'ar empire future where the Phoenix Force didn't crate planetary destruction in connection to Jean Grey and on it's way to Hope Summers.

    If that is true, then how doesn't Shuri know about the incursions if Doom does?

  14. #764
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    Quote Originally Posted by PocketfulofKryptonite View Post
    The alternate universe Builders stated the 616 Earth's destruction could avert all future incursions. The 616 Builders were the people that instigated the Infinity invasion.

    The Shi'ar considered killing a teen Jean Grey for her future version's actions, only discouraged by the idea that she may know better and act differently in a parallel future now she knows better. That the face universal destruction by siding with the Earth forces against the current universe builders who were basically trying to initiate an in universe incursion to avoid multiversal incursions... I think they'd be pretty damn mad their forces were rallied against the Builders rather than the real threat to the universe and possibly the multiverse which includes the parallel future of a preserved Shi'ar empire future where the Phoenix Force didn't crate planetary destruction in connection to Jean Grey and on it's way to Hope Summers.

    If that is true, then how doesn't Shuri know about the incursions if Doom does?
    The alternate universe Builders suggested the destruction of all Earths might avert the universes dying but more likely slow it down. So far no one that knows about what is going on has suggested that destroying the 616 or indeed any Earth would be more than a temporary solution. If Black Swan can be trusted on this issue then stopping the incursions doesn't even solve the problem as they are a by product of the multiverse dying and that even if an Earth survives an incursion it will still face the real problem later on.

    The 616 based Builders took the tactic of either destroying or subjugating every planet on it's long way to Earth. As far as the Galactic forces (and the majority of Earth's heroes) knew they were undeniably doing the right thing at the time.

    Also the Incursion point is a relatively small area. The one that occurred in Wakanda in the first issue was in the middle of the jungle and all witnesses bar T'Challa were killed so no one could spill to Shuri. That Incursion in Latveria occurred right near Doom's castle hence he knows a little something about the phenomena.

  15. #765
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fod_xp View Post
    Now this sounds like Hickman. I am pretty sure the name "Black Swan" itself is pretty indicative of the character's motivation and narrative purpose.

    Black Swan Theory
    So the use of a Black Swan is falsification. That makes sense if Hickman is going to twist the ending of this to state that Incursions are an impossibility and can't exist, so any drama involving the stopping of Incursions becomes nonexistent. Black Swan is a fake out.

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