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  1. #796
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    In light of those lines, I begin to wonder if Captain Britain is as likely a candidate for whatever that role is as I thought earlier. Others have suggested Amadeus Cho, who probably is a better fit after all.

    Whatever the case, both of those guys are showing up soon, so we'll find out.

  2. #797
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    So it looked like today's Avengers #34 tells us that Cap was only right in the moral sense, but FAR from right in the practical sense.

    Even then, Cap isn't in the moral right either. Why? Because he's STILL keeping silent about his (former) involvement with the Illuminati, and the multi-universal level death clock situation that the BP and co. were dealing with. Why? Because he knows it will compromise his vendetta against Tony.

    Even after the Kangs tell him that doing things Cap's way, in fact, things that a lot of people here said that they should do (which means Hickman must be a lurker on these forums.....XD), DOESN'T WORK, Cap STILL opts to kill/take out Tony (tho we know that he fails, via Avengers #35 and SIM #1).

    Also, this latest Avengers title straight up tells us that all time occurs at the same time. So if adult Franklin could do something about this situation, he would. However he can't.

    Quotes of the Day:

    "I don't let people die because it's the lesser of two evils, or expedient, or because it serves a greater good... I don't compare the act against something else-- I see someone who needs help...and I help. You think it's a weakness, you think it's simple...but you're wrong. I rescue the helpless. I raise up the hopeless. I don't measure people's lives... It's what makes us human...which is exactly what supposed to be fighting for.

    I know who I am. I save them."

    - Captain America

    "No one here...cares."

    - Kang the Conqueror


  3. #798
    Mighty Member hawkeyefan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelAngel0 View Post
    So it looked like today's Avengers #34 tells us that Cap was only right in the moral sense, but FAR from right in the practical sense.

    Even then, Cap isn't in the moral right either. Why? Because he's STILL keeping silent about his (former) involvement with the Illuminati, and the multi-universal level death clock situation that the BP and co. were dealing with. Why? Because he knows it will compromise his vendetta against Tony.

    Even after the Kangs tell him that doing things Cap's way, in fact, things that a lot of people here said that they should do (which means Hickman must be a lurker on these forums.....XD), DOESN'T WORK, Cap STILL opts to kill/take out Tony (tho we know that he fails, via Avengers #35 and SIM #1).

    Also, this latest Avengers title straight up tells us that all time occurs at the same time. So if adult Franklin could do something about this situation, he would. However he can't.

    Quotes of the Day:

    "I don't let people die because it's the lesser of two evils, or expedient, or because it serves a greater good... I don't compare the act against something else-- I see someone who needs help...and I help. You think it's a weakness, you think it's simple...but you're wrong. I rescue the helpless. I raise up the hopeless. I don't measure people's lives... It's what makes us human...which is exactly what supposed to be fighting for.

    I know who I am. I save them."

    - Captain America

    "No one here...cares."

    - Kang the Conqueror

    We don't know if he's not going to share his involvement with the Illuminati with the Avengers, so I think you're off on saying he's not morally right based on that. Or at the very least, being premature.

  4. #799
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyefan View Post
    We don't know if he's not going to share his involvement with the Illuminati with the Avengers, so I think you're off on saying he's not morally right based on that. Or at the very least, being premature.
    I'm going off the now, and, in the now, Cap has failed to mention either the Incursions, or his involvement in the Illuminati, the two times he had the opportunity to tell them. He's just painting the Illuminati as villains.

    Still, in the future (aka Sept 17, aka Avengers #35) we know that Tony gets the better of the manhunt. Maybe Tony and Steve do talk it out, and some kind of compromise is met. However, that hasn't happened yet, so Cap is still just as wrong as the Illuminati.

  5. #800
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    I'm sure this has been asked, but too many pages. Did they show Thanos escape on panel somewhere?

    I wonder if some of the Illuminati will hide out in the New Xavier School as Hickman said a while back he was writing some Cyclops stuff.
    Last edited by Optic Rage!; 08-27-2014 at 10:40 AM.

  6. #801
    Astonishing Member Mahes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optic Rage! View Post
    I'm sure this has been asked, but too many pages. Did they show Thanos escape on panel somewhere?

    I wonder if some of the Illuminati will hide out in the New Xavier School as Hickman said a while back he was writing some Cyclops stuff.
    1. No escape shown but easily inferred as he's part of the Cabal.
    2. Hickman said that they'd hide at the NXS?

  7. #802
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahes View Post
    1. No escape shown but easily inferred as he's part of the Cabal.
    2. Hickman said that they'd hide at the NXS?
    Not specifically, just that when asked to name his favorite Marvel characters he name checked Cyclops and said that he'd be writing some of him soon. It makes sense that some of the Illuminati would go to him to hide from the Avengers. Beast is aware of the location after all.

    It might not happen, but i can't think of any other reason why he'd be writing Cyclops.

  8. #803
    Mighty Member hawkeyefan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelAngel0 View Post
    I'm going off the now, and, in the now, Cap has failed to mention either the Incursions, or his involvement in the Illuminati, the two times he had the opportunity to tell them. He's just painting the Illuminati as villains.

    Still, in the future (aka Sept 17, aka Avengers #35) we know that Tony gets the better of the manhunt. Maybe Tony and Steve do talk it out, and some kind of compromise is met. However, that hasn't happened yet, so Cap is still just as wrong as the Illuminati.
    I hear you. It certainly is possible, but I expect him to come clean. Perhaps not on panel, but I think it's pretty much a given he will explain his involvement. What does he have to gain by lying? And I think the fact that he knows what the Illuminati are up to implies a level of involvement on his part. Certainly Black widow or Hawkeye would say "wait, how'd you find out about this".

    Quote Originally Posted by Mahes View Post
    1. No escape shown but easily inferred as he's part of the Cabal.
    2. Hickman said that they'd hide at the NXS?
    A while back when asked if he'd ever write Cyclops, Hickman said something like "coming soon". I think Optic Rage is saying that might mean the Illuminati move their HQ to the school.

    But it could just mean that Cyclops appears in a scene with Beast or Wolverine or some other context. We'll see.

  9. #804
    Astonishing Member Mahes's Avatar
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    Hmm would Cyclops support the Illuminati's actions? I'd like to see Hickman get to write a scene about it.

  10. #805
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahes View Post
    Hmm would Cyclops support the Illuminati's actions? I'd like to see Hickman get to write a scene about it.
    I'd imagine so.

    Will be interesting to see if he grants Beast asylum after all the crap he's thrown at him over the last few years. I know i wouldn't.

  11. #806
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    I looked at it, then put it back. Maybe I'll pick it up next week. Sorry but at this point I'm too depressed to even think of the bad guys as worth not liking or the good guys as worth cheering on. Hickman and marvel don't want good guys, they don't want bad guys, they just want lots of death and more death and even more death and I don't think that the bloodlust will ever be satisfied. I'm a little surprised that Namor and his new buddies didn't stop to rape a bit before the slaughter, but I guess they were in a hurry.

    Let them all die, no one on either team seems to be worth much anyway, they just have different reasons for killing worlds. I'm going to try hard not to care anymore.

  12. #807
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahes View Post
    Hmm would Cyclops support the Illuminati's actions? I'd like to see Hickman get to write a scene about it.
    I would imagine no, because they decided to keep it a secret and because they decided to just lay there and allow the universes to die when the bombs were no longer an option.

    If they were more honest about it at the start, I think things might be different for a lot of people. But the way the Illuminati handled the situation I think is what ends up costing them potential allies.

  13. #808
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyefan View Post
    I hear you. It certainly is possible, but I expect him to come clean. Perhaps not on panel, but I think it's pretty much a given he will explain his involvement. What does he have to gain by lying? And I think the fact that he knows what the Illuminati are up to implies a level of involvement on his part. Certainly Black widow or Hawkeye would say "wait, how'd you find out about this".



    A while back when asked if he'd ever write Cyclops, Hickman said something like "coming soon". I think Optic Rage is saying that might mean the Illuminati move their HQ to the school.

    But it could just mean that Cyclops appears in a scene with Beast or Wolverine or some other context. We'll see.
    The location of Cyclops school is like the worst kept secret in the marvel universe. At this point they can probably find the location on Map Quest. I'm not sure that's the safest place for the Illuminati to be hanging out, if in fact they decide they need a place to crash.

  14. #809
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    I looked at it, then put it back. Maybe I'll pick it up next week. Sorry but at this point I'm too depressed to even think of the bad guys as worth not liking or the good guys as worth cheering on. Hickman and marvel don't want good guys, they don't want bad guys, they just want lots of death and more death and even more death and I don't think that the bloodlust will ever be satisfied. I'm a little surprised that Namor and his new buddies didn't stop to rape a bit before the slaughter, but I guess they were in a hurry.

    Let them all die, no one on either team seems to be worth much anyway, they just have different reasons for killing worlds. I'm going to try hard not to care anymore.
    Did you read Avengers #34 yet? Steve Rogers takes a refreshing look at the motives of the super hero, and lectures against the blood and the death culture of both the Illuminati and the Kangs Team of the future.

  15. #810
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    Did you read Avengers #34 yet? Steve Rogers takes a refreshing look at the motives of the super hero, and lectures against the blood and the death culture of both the Illuminati and the Kangs Team of the future.
    Glanced at it. Steve can make the speeches, that's part of what being Captain America is, but will anyone listen or care? The ends justify the means at marvel and while Steve may be willing to go the moral route he's a minority.

    From Dissesembled on the marvel writers have crafted the marvel characters to be capable of doing the right thing only when it is the only way left and being the good guys again only when they have an ultimate evil like the Red Skull to face. Until then the biggest threat to the superheroes is the superheroes with characters either dumbed down to fit the plot or made evil to fit the plot. In my opinion only when the storylines don't matter like some of the individual titles She-Hulk, Ms. Marvel and a few others are the superheroes allowed to be heroic. In the big titles like this or in the crossovers they are simply killers with reasons and morals don't matter. At best the morals make the hesitate for a little bit and then they do the horrible things anyway.
    I don't think that the marvel writers in these big events want the old heroes to be heroic, they want them to be as bad as they can possibly be and each event since AD has written the heroes to go lower and lower and lower. Wanda goes crazy in AD, Tony goes fascist in cw, Cyclops is a murderer and the Avengers are held in a vr prison by the X-men and tortured in AvX.
    Well for me they've gotten to the point with this story where no matter what villain they introduce to show the good guys in a good light again it simply won't work. These guys have taken the heel turn, they've blown up a world, murdered it's heroes and they are going to skip away from it because that's what happens with every one of these events. Give it a few months and no one will remember the Great Society, a year and Namor will be forgiven.

    Ultimately I go back to a question I asked a while back, to the Great Societies world who is the greater villain, the Illuminati who murdered them or the Red Skull who would have ruled them as a vicious tyrant? At worst with the Skull they would have had to endure a couple of decades of his rule, with the Illuminati they are dead. So while this may be marvel and Hickman's view of what heroism is, it is not mine. Steve can make all the speeches that he wants, they'll fall on deaf ears as far the characters go and I'm not even sure that the writers believe them anymore.
    Last edited by Mark; 08-28-2014 at 05:59 AM.

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