New Avengers #23 (spoilers)

[AcesX1X]

Yes, it totally is.

If a car is coming at you and you push someone in front of you to slow the car down, you've commited murder.

consequently, if a car is coming someone and you refuse to pull them out of the way, then you are an awful person.

[runguy]

Yes, it totally is.

If a car is coming at you and you push someone in front of you to slow the car down, you've commited murder.

and to continue that argument what if by pushing that one person you save a few more (this is an better analogy to the issue at hand)

[MichaelAngel0]

Yes, it totally is.

If a car is coming at you and you push someone in front of you to slow the car down, you've commited murder.

That analogy is not what is happening here at all.

If anything, what the Cabal is doing is akin to shooting the driver, and then blowing up the damn car. It's self-defense, albeit extreme.

[Username taken]

The problem I have with this scenario is the Tony and co not actually looking for help outside.

I think they should have shared the problem with other great minds and perhaps powers to look for a solution.

It's quite selfish and arrogant for the Illuminati to possess this sort of information and keep it themselves while their friends and loved ones might die

[yet another]

If a car is coming at you and you push someone in front of you to slow the car down, you've commited murder.

Not quite like that I think.

The car is coming for both of you, but only one can get away. And if you both are killed then the rest of the city/country blows up as well.

[AcesX1X]

It's quite selfish and arrogant for the Illuminati to possess this sort of information and keep it themselves while their friends and loved ones might die

it is completely despicable behavior that all of them would act this way. there is no excuse for their actions in this issue.

[KOSLOX]

and to continue that argument what if by pushing that one person you save a few more (this is an better analogy to the issue at hand)

Doesn't change the fact that you're a murderer.

In this instance though it's changed from stopping the car at the last minute to showing up and just tossing people in the street.

Each time they do it they've got to recalibrate their moral justification. It's only a few billions to save trillions, it's only 100 billion to save trillions, it's only a trillion to save 10 trillion, it's only 4 trillion to save... ad infinitum.

[KOSLOX]

That analogy is not what is happening here at all.

If anything, what the Cabal is doing is akin to shooting the driver, and then blowing up the damn car. It's self-defense, albeit extreme.

The driver would be the cause of the incursions. Unless you're claiming that this latest Earth caused all this and now they're in the clear.

[MouserGrey]

Being the characters that we have been reading about for decades we have to assume they have tried to find solutions. Hickman has not shown them mentioning that, but I respect their history enough to believe that they have and have simply failed to find a solution. I believe that Hickman is going to destroy everything at the end of this story. And how these characters react to their end is what the whole comic is all about. You can use the story of whatever king it was who went out into the ocean and tried to fight it with his sword, I believe. Insanity. Destroying another world is just another wave with one directly behind it. It is so obvious to me. Is there anyone else who sees this? The end of everything is a forgone conclusion stated somewhere in almost every issue. If what some posters who are familiar with Hickman's writing are correct, he does not bluff. So swinging a sword at the next wave and the next and the next is eventually going to wear even Thanos out. He will probably realize this once he is more familiar with the situation. There is no escape for any of these characters and some have the wisdom to bow to the inevitable. Of course we all know some plot device will save it all. Hickman is just showing what these characters are made of when it comes to their own personal end. What, he wondered, will these characters do in the face of their actual death.

[KOSLOX]

Not quite like that I think.

The car is coming for both of you, but only one can get away. And if you both are killed then the rest of the city/country blows up as well.

Right, but that doesn't stop the car so you have to keep doing it.

[Mark]

Sooner or later even this storylines thirst for blood will end and a solution will be found, but Namor and the Illuminati will still be murderers and I doubt very much that many will stop buying the stories they will be staring in the future or even consider their actions wrong. Billions, trillions, zillions... They'll kill them and skip away from it in a year or two no one in the mu will be talking about it because they'll be busy with the next event.

[yet another]

it is completely despicable behavior that all of them would act this way. there is no excuse for their actions in this issue.

They surely don't want to cause their loved ones distress in their final hours.

Besides, if the Illuminati can't come up with something then how could possibly anyone else? And telling others about this just means admitting to having come up short, which would probably be quite embarrassing for them.

[Omega Alpha]

Of course she's living with "Uncle Doom"; that shown in the first pages of the first issue.

You say you're glad you dropped, but it seems that you never even read it.

I've dropped it with #3, if it happened on issue #1 I must have forgotten it.

The problem I have with this scenario is the Tony and co not actually looking for help outside.

I think they should have shared the problem with other great minds and perhaps powers to look for a solution.

It's quite selfish and arrogant for the Illuminati to possess this sort of information and keep it themselves while their friends and loved ones might die

Yep, they think that if they can't solve it, no one else can.

[AcesX1X]

They surely don't want to cause their loved ones distress in their final hours.

Besides, if the Illuminati can't come up with something then how could possibly anyone else? And telling others about this just means admitting to having come up short, which would probably be quite embarrassing for them.

that is really arrogant of them to think that if they can't find a solution they should go get drunk or have sex with people in a school waiting for the world to blow up. these people deserve a chance to fight for their lives and the illuminati actively took that choice away from everyone.

[yet another]

Right, but that doesn't stop the car so you have to keep doing it.

Right, there will be other cars coming for the one that made it. BUT, at least the universe of the one that didn't will be home free as there will be no more cars coming there.

So the longer they can keep it up, the more universes they save even if their own might not make it in the end. Seems like a worthwhile endeavor to me. Even at the cost of your soul if you have one.

Of course this whole setup is quite contrived. But maybe Hickman has a twist or two coming before the story is concluded.