Personality-wise, how do you distinguish Wonder Woman and Superman?

[Sacred Knight]

My ideals:
She can be a little more pragmatic as Supes while Kal can be a little more idealistic. These aren't extremes, Diana isn't bloodthirsty and Clark isn't mind-numbingly naïve.
Diana is more outwardly an outsider due to her lack of human guise. Clark was raised human so outwardly he can seem like he fits in just fine. There is a disconnect due to his powers, different physiology, and status, but basically he can hide it better.
Diana gives off a royal air. Not haughty but she is a princess, so that does reflect. Superman is far more laid back and easily approachable despite his powers. The royal air of the former makes her a little intimidating in terms of approaching her. However its not an intentional at arms length demeanor and she's actually quite welcoming and friendly too.

[RachelGrey]

My ideals:
She can be a little more pragmatic as Supes while Kal can be a little more idealistic. These aren't extremes, Diana isn't bloodthirsty and Clark isn't mind-numbingly naïve.
Diana is more outwardly an outsider due to her lack of human guise. Clark was raised human so outwardly he can seem like he fits in just fine. There is a disconnect due to his powers, different physiology, and status, but basically he can hide it better.
Diana gives off a royal air. Not haughty but she is a princess, so that does reflect. Superman is far more laid back and easily approachable despite his powers. The royal air of the former makes her a little intimidating in terms of approaching her. However its not an intentional at arms length demeanor and she's actually quite welcoming and friendly too.

Diana is a trained warrior and it shows in how she fights. If you took away Diana and Clarks powers Diana could hold her own against Clark and Bruce. Clark would lose to both of them, he needs his powers. Some writers try to fix this by giving Clark something non-powered to do from time to time, but I don't know Diana just strikes me as someone who will do what needs to be done to save everyone. I think Diana is better at making hard choices than Bruce and Clark are. She is more compassionate but she is also prepared to fight in ways that neither of them will, and that's because Diana is also a warrior and a soldier with lots of battle experience.

[the COMET]

You're just trying too hard to desagree with people, trying to pick some detail that you can attack and distorting what others say, pretending it's difficult to understand.

Batman killing can be justified depending on how it is done but abuse cannot. And I've seen plenty fans who hate Batman killing actually defend Bruce's abuse and his use of torture. A lot of comic book fans have some weird moral priorities to say the least.

Wait, what do you think making people tell the truth against their will is?

By this line only it's clear that you're way off, trying to accuse ppl. That's not the point of a conversation, where ppl come in terms of agreement to find a way where everybody wins, you think this place serves for you to win and everybody else to lose. Who would want to talk with someone like that?

[Alpha]

My ideals:
She can be a little more pragmatic as Supes while Kal can be a little more idealistic. These aren't extremes, Diana isn't bloodthirsty and Clark isn't mind-numbingly naïve.
Diana is more outwardly an outsider due to her lack of human guise. Clark was raised human so outwardly he can seem like he fits in just fine. There is a disconnect due to his powers, different physiology, and status, but basically he can hide it better.
Diana gives off a royal air. Not haughty but she is a princess, so that does reflect. Superman is far more laid back and easily approachable despite his powers. The royal air of the former makes her a little intimidating in terms of approaching her. However its not an intentional at arms length demeanor and she's actually quite welcoming and friendly too.

I admit that I never really thought through what being a princess would mean for Diana. Then again, the whole idea of monarchy is laughable considering the fact that the Amazons don't age. I think Diana would be treated as special regardless of the royal factor, but more in the sense that she is a child of everyone. I mean yes, Hippolyta created her, but I'm sure many other amazons wanted to have children, so when Diana came to be they probably wanted to feel like she was their daughter too. Still, I don't think she would be very pompous or "act like a noble" because she was trained in the various fields of Amazonian studies, including combat, science, spirituality, philosophy, and in a demanding but caring way. I think she was always treated as special, but not more deserving than others.

This isn't a counter argument to anyone, it's just a thought.

[Agent Z]

You're just trying too hard to desagree with people, trying to pick some detail that you can attack and distorting what others say, pretending it's difficult to understand.



By this line only it's clear that you're way off, trying to accuse ppl. That's not the point of a conversation, where ppl come in terms of agreement to find a way where everybody wins, you think this place serves for you to win and everybody else to lose. Who would want to talk with someone like that?

I was not even referring to you or anyone in this thread when I said that so I'm not seeing what you're taking offense to here.

[manwhohaseverything]

I didn't say Ozymandias was being pragmatic. But what Dr Manhattan did was pragmatic. He understood that revealling the truth, would be putting ideals over reason. It would be a "good" action with bad consequences. I think Diana would absolutely refuse to keep the secret. So in this case she would be idealistic.

You do realise watchmen is a deconstruction. By design heroes choose practicality over ideals. None of these guys would bow to that kind of nonsense from the real dc.

If you are asking for a pure utilitarian or deontological superhero. You won't find any. Everyone of them have ethical action and consequences both in mind like normal people . It's just some of them have certain breaking points where they say "no" and other don't have the same in regards to compromising ideals.This leads to conflicts. I would say the watchmen situation is where everyone of these guy would have had reached that breaking point in regards to ideals. At the end of the day, these guys are meant to heroic. So, never portrayed as bad. Heroic qualities are emphasized. So much so, some of them become saints like saint superman with his "thou shall hope".

Batman is the closest to a pure guy with his "i have one rule and i would never break it. Even if hell breaks lose because of it" policy from a sorta deontological perspective.This makes him rigid. Jason todd's treatment by him would be an example. Also, normally utilitarianism in general is viewed through a bad lense by the fandom and writers in regards to killing whatever maybe the reason.

[Alpha]

You do realise watchmen is a deconstruction. By design heroes choose practicality over ideals. None of these guys would bow to that kind of nonsense from the real dc.

If you are asking for a pure utilitarian or deontological superhero. You won't find any. Everyone of them have ethical action and consequences both in mind like normal people . It's just some of them have certain breaking points where they say "no" and other don't have the same in regards to compromising ideals.This leads to conflicts. I would say the watchmen situation is where everyone of these guy would have had reached that breaking point in regards to ideals. At the end of the day, these guys are meant to heroic. So, never portrayed as bad. Heroic qualities are emphasized. So much so, some of them become saints like saint superman with his "thou shall hope".

Batman is the closest to a pure guy with his "i have one rule and i would never break it. Even if hell breaks lose because of it" policy from a sorta deontological perspective.This makes him rigid. Jason todd's treatment by him would be an example. Also, normally utilitarianism in general is viewed through a bad lense by the fandom and writers in regards to killing whatever maybe the reason.

I wasn't asking for anything, I was proving that Diana isn't particularly pragmatic. There are ideals that she puts above reason, ideals that other heroes don't even put that high. like Superman and Batman.

Utilitarian and pragmatic although usually associated, aren't the same thing. But in this case I don't think it makes a difference. That said, I think Batman might actually keep the secret. I think he would deeply despise the barbarity commited by Ozymandias, but he would worry too much about the consequences of revealing the truth. Superman might also be tempted to keep it a secret, but I think he ultimately would decide to reveal it. Wonder Woman wouldn't even be tempted. She wants to deal with things directly, never avoid them. She still isn't being pragmatic because she knows it would put the whole world in danger of nuclear war once again.

[manwhohaseverything]

I wasn't asking for anything, I was proving that Diana isn't particularly pragmatic. There are ideals that she puts above reason, ideals that other heroes don't even put that high. like Superman and Batman.

Utilitarian and pragmatic although usually associated, aren't the same thing. But in this case I don't think it makes a difference. That said, I think Batman might actually keep the secret. I think he would deeply despise the barbarity commited by Ozymandias, but he would worry too much about the consequences of revealing the truth. Superman might also be tempted to keep it a secret, but I think he ultimately would decide to reveal it. Wonder Woman wouldn't even be tempted. She wants to deal with things directly, never avoid them. She still isn't being pragmatic because she knows it would put the whole world in danger of nuclear war once again.

Agree to disagree.batman is more rigid when it comes to these kind of things.goldenage superman wouldn't think.he was striving for truth and justice as ideals ,not hope.he isn't pragmatic at all.the only reason he decided to hide was because of his dead parents and promises made. he hated it with all passion.he wasn't avoiding a damn thing.since he was not hurting anybody and moreover protecting people .he let it slide.maybe the current superman will be tempted (I seriously doubt it).

[Alpha]

Then again, I view Bruce as a very utilitarian person, with the one exception of personally refusing to purposedly killing people, but maybe my interpretation is a distortion of him. In terms of setting limits for his morals I'm very influenced by Grant Morrison.

Batman oposing the mind wipe in Identity Crisis seems like out of character to me. What do you guys think about it?

[Alpha]

Agree to disagree.batman is more rigid when it comes to these kind of things.goldenage superman wouldn't think.he was striving for truth and justice as ideals ,not hope.he isn't pragmatic at all.the only reason he decided to hide was because of his dead parents and promises made. he hated it with all passion.he wasn't avoiding a damn thing.since he was not hurting anybody and moreover protecting people .he let it slide.maybe the current superman will be tempted (I seriously doubt it).

Honestly, I don't think Truth and Justice make sense as ideals for Superman. I know they are a staple for nearly every interpretation of him, but I just don't see it. Justice? Maybe. But Truth?

I think Clark's ethics are guided by this, "I was raised on a farm and know the importance of self detemination. But I am the definition of privilege in the sense that I have these powers that mean I can get anything I want by force, and most things through x-ray vision, super hearing and super speed. I think people deserve to have the same power and security I have, but since I can't transfer it to all of them I'm going to do my very best to provide a better, happier world and strive to make sure everyone is capable of having the life they desire and work for."

While maintaining a deep appreciation for life, these ideas would ultimately drive him towards an utilitarian view. He obviosly can't give everyone all they need, but his success is based on how much he can do for the most people possible. This is why I don't believe your whole "Superman shouldn't care what people think of him", because his whole deal for me is to do everything possible so that others can choose their own lives, and this is based on his social responsibility. It's why he needs to try to respect legal institutions and laws, and strive for change in non distressful ways. He has a better chance of having more social power if he maintains a semblance of general responsibility. He still has to intimidate authorities at many times, but there has to be a balance.

[Marik Swift]

That's interesting. I imagine that the cuss words she uses don't directly translate though. Maybe something like:

"Cerberus' balls!"

"Sweet teats of Aphrodite!!"

"Drink deeply of my milk!"

"To Hades with you!"

"Go lie with the Harpy!"

Lol, I could definitely see that.

[manwhohaseverything]

Honestly, I don't think Truth and Justice make sense as ideals for Superman. I know they are a staple for nearly every interpretation of him, but I just don't see it. Justice? Maybe. But Truth?

I think Clark's ethics are guided by this, "I was raised on a farm and know the importance of self detemination. But I am the definition of privilege in the sense that I have these powers that mean I can get anything I want by force, and most things through x-ray vision, super hearing and super speed. I think people deserve to have the same power and security I have, but since I can't transfer it to all of them I'm going to do my very best to provide a better, happier world and strive to make sure everyone is capable of having the life they desire and work for."

While maintaining a deep desire for life, these ideas would ultimately drive him towards an utilitarian view, where he obviously can't give this to everyone, but his success is based on how much he can do for the most people possible. This is why I don't believe your whole "Superman shouldn't care what people think of him", because his whole deal for me is to do everything possible so that others can choose their own lives, and this is based on his social responsibility. It's why he needs to try to respect legal institutions and laws, and strive for change in non distressful ways. He has a better chance of having more social power if he maintains a semblance of general responsibility. He still has to intimidate authorities at many times, but there has to be a balance.

His powers weren't given to him by birth.Only potential was.He had to work at it.If he didn't it would have gone.That's why he was racing locomotives and lifting stuff.Atleast in the goldenage.He was very much a pulp hero like zorro and doc savage.Both of these guys worked to get where they are.The farmlife wasn't big part.It was cemented later on with donner.

Goldenage superman or siegel's superman wouldn't give up his ideals and putting them in action in real world so that he can have a life.That's bluntly clear from his choice to be superman, be hated and hunted for it.He could have chosen a life without noises thinking of himself.He could have chosen a life of slavery.But,he chose to be a gladiator.But,he chose to jump in..His choice in for the man who has everything is also example.He would give up a life even on krypton for it.That's where things get complicated.People can choose their own lives and live happily.But,it has to be everyone and everyone should get that choice.If a percentage of people aren't.Then we have a problem.If certain sections are living the life and others aren't .If the power structures are inherently aiding that.Clark is not gonna tolerate that.He is gonna make a choice.It is gonna be to fight for those who can't fight for themselves as their champion.As he was one of those who couldn't fight for himself when he arrived.His social responsibilty is to tell the truth and not tolerate injustice,even if it's the structure.It's as simple as that.Simply put,structures becoming shackles is not gonna be tolerated.He would be the strongman who breaks chains ala fenrir wolf and spartacus.

[Alpha]

From a story standpoint, how would you say their personalities or perspectives are different from one another?

By the way, that cover is one of the worst comparisons you could give of Superman and Diana. It really shows how inappropriate her previous suit was and how they make Superman look all beefy for no reason, and Diana just looks like a woman that goes to the gym to have thick thighs. I mean cmon, she should be more muscular than Superman. I don't even think Superman should have abs. He shouldn't be scrawny but not particularly ripped either. I think David Schwimmer had the ideal build. It feels like someone who probably gives you a good hug, but isn't exactly trying to book any modelling gigs or bodybuilding awards

david-schwimmer-underwear-boxer-shorts-friends.jpg

And I feel like Diana should be buit somewhere between Betty Gilpin (not the chest, just the wide shoulders) and Ronda Rousey. Which is a unique body type in women.

rsz_2los-angeles-ca-usa-21st-jan-2018-betty-gilpin-at-arrivals-for-24th-m0em8g.jpg
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[Agent Z]

By the way, that cover is one of the worst comparisons you could give of Superman and Diana. It really shows how inappropriate her previous suit was and how they make Superman look all beefy for no reason, and Diana just looks like a woman that goes to the gym to have thick thighs. I mean cmon, she should be more muscular than Superman. I don't even think Superman should have abs. He shouldn't be scrawny but not particularly ripped either. I think David Schwimmer had the ideal build. It feels like someone who probably gives you good hug, but isn't exactly trying to book any modelling gigs or bodybuilding awards

Why would Diana be more muscular than Superman?

There is a reason David Schwimmer is not cast as a superhero.

[Alpha]

Why would Diana be more muscular than Superman?

There is a reason David Schwimmer is not cast as a superhero.

Because Diana was specifically molded in clay to be the perfect woman. She practiced and trained with the amazons. Clark was just born with powers and it seems to me that their bodies should hint at how their powers work and the physical regimen they have. There's a reason why people tend to draw Flash somewhat slimmer.