Personality-wise, how do you distinguish Wonder Woman and Superman?

[SecretWarrior]

@SecretWarrior what similarities do you see between Superman and Wonder Woman?

I think you have to look at DC Comics and then the Superman and Wonder Woman fanbases first.

With DC's heroes, what you often see is that they have more well-rounded personalities while they're in team books in order to keep the team dynamic interesting, but then you see that go away in their solo books, where the lead is pretty much perfect and always in the right. This goes across almost every major character from Batman to Flash, with the exceptions being some of the smaller characters like Animal Man, Booster Gold, Huntress, and Plastic Man. Overall, this inconsistent portrayal leads to fractured ideas within fanbases of what a character should be. I don't think anyone can objectively say their preference in the right one, but you can find a larger consensus within a fanbase.

If you look at the Superman and Wonder Woman forums here, it looks like the characters are so iconic that the fans want them both to be depicted fundamentally the same paragon way: patient, not brash; competent in every scenario, even new and foreign ones; preachy about love and peace without taking stances on real, weighty issues; authoritative; fearless or without doubt; not wise-crackers, but not humorless and cold--essentially gods, since human psychology doesn't support all of these qualities all of the time. It's what little kids think their parents are like before they get to know their parents better. I get how people can find comfort in that, but I don't think it works well for a universe of people who are supposed to be distinct from one another beyond surface level stuff.

To avoid redundancy, we've seen writers lean into the warrior part of Wonder Woman a little too much to where she comes off as bloodthirsty. I don't want that. I also don't want her to be another Jesus/Moses analogue like Superman, which was a complaint about WW1984. I don't mind her being a fish out of water who has to learn a few things (non-Themysciran gender dynamics; ice cream; politics and spy-work to help trafficked women; etc.), especially if she has things to teach in return. So yeah, she can go around hugging AIDs patients like Diana Spencer and still be someone who shows compassion for an enemy even when she has to kill, like Tanjiro from Demon Slayer.

I don't see much difference between Wonder Woman and Superman these days, at least not without blowback. I think if I were to try to distinguish them, it would be that Diana has preconceived notions as an outsider that a sometimes wrong, unlike Clark who grew up as an insider without much understanding of his background. This may make Diana come across as above-it-all, unlike Clark. On the other hand, I'd give Wonder Woman more of a disregard for the rules than Clark, who can break the rules if absolutely necessary, but who wants to avoid making enemies or really stirring the pot, potentially making things worse. Wonder Woman wouldn't care about what the UN has to say about some humanitarian issue, while Clark would be concerned that he's causing a bigger issue in the long-term by interfering. I guess, in that sense, Wonder Woman would be more optimistic about the effect she could have on the world, being more ambitious about social causes, while Clark wants to keep people safe and leave them some room to make their own decisions and own mistakes. Of course, he's not going to just watch people get hurt, but he's not going to interfere in a war zone unless things are particularly screwy. Since she was raised as a warrior while Clark was not, I would have Diana be more decisive about how to end a crisis than Clark, who tries to find better solutions, even if that puts lives at risk. In that situation, both are right and both are wrong. It's gray, especially if Clark is shown to be wrong in some situations. In contrast to Batman, she's more considerate of other's feelings, like Clark, but is also more practical like Bruce in terms of not seeking out the perfect solution--just what works best in the moment for most people.

If I were to create an influence map for her, it would include: Tanjiro (compassionate for enemies she feels she has to kill but is still going to do her duty to save lives); Margaery Tyrell (subtle, cunning kindness); Moana (adventuress-ness); Esmeralda (liveliness, outgoingness); and Judy Hopps (has a sense of justice but also preconceived notions about the world that are not always right). As you can see, she'd be driven but still have flaws and would be in the right sometimes and not in others. She's an extrovert, while Clark is an introvert.

Clark would be like: Samwise Gamgee/Hinata Hyuga/Alphonse Elric (generally quiet but steadfast, earnest, and kind); Steve Rogers, trying to follow the rules to do what's best for everyone (and potentially eventually becoming more of an insurgent, who thinks he knows best and doesn't really care about other people think, which is not always a good thing, like we saw on JLU); Pepper Potts/Catelyn Stark/Jorah Mormont/Starlight (clever and competent without being showy about it); Ann Perkins (funny, in a particularly kind way); and Stefan Salvatore (tough/resilient in an introverted way).

I'd like for people to accept the differences between ENFJ personalities (Wonder Woman) and ISFJ personalities (Superman), without making fuss about their character being the best all the time, lol. Both personalities have strengths and weaknesses. Never going to happen though--people are obsessed with their favorite outdoing everyone else!

[DrNewGod]

Fascinating Question: In my view, Superman has an assimilated-child-immigrant's view of the world, and Wonder Woman has an adult-recent-arrival's view.

In my opinion of their most common depictions, Superman and Wonder Woman are both alike, but different asychronously. Each has a childhood that reflects the other's adulthood, and the adulthood of each is very different from their childhood.

Superman (in most interpretations) became aware at a young age that he was very different than those around him, and was compelled to hide it by his foster parents. In spite of having friends and a loving family in a small town, in some ways, he grew very much alone. Still, he grew up in the US culture and became a part of it, blending in. A classic American child-immigrants story (back when the US still seemed to like immigrants).

For all the circumstances of her birth, Wonder Woman grew up as one Amazon among many. Yes, she was remarkable, and soon surpassed her sisters, but she was accepted for who she was, needing to hide nothing. If different, she was not lonely. She belonged, but then she left. She experienced being alien only on entering Patriarch's World, where she had to learn a culture as an adult.

What is more, unlike Superman, Wonder Woman is still in real-time touch with her birth culture. Aside from trips to Kandor, Superman can't drop in on Krypton. Even then, that's tourism in grandma's old home, not going home.

They both pursue Justice, but their origins and place as adults might give them different views of the word. Superman's might be more grounded in the idealized view of The American Dream, while Wonder Woman's view might focus more on a broader view of what Justice should be. Although, I suspect the difference in choices between the two might be small.

Thing is, my ability to articulate this idea is handicapped by being a 9th Federation Scotch-Irish American; my grip on the immigrant experience is weak at best. What I'd be fascinated to read is the opinion of posters of non-Euro American origin on this native-raised/adult-immigrant framework I propose.

No child thinks of themselves as different, until they realize other people think they are. How does that shape the view of Superman and Wonder Woman to a non-WASP native-born American v. an adult immigrant of the same racial origin?

[Frontier]

This and Wonder Woman will snap your neck if necessary

She can never live that down anymore than Cavill's Superman...

Ahhh yes, the "Diana totally kills people" argument.

The other Zod and the pocket dimension Kryptonians say hello. Clark kills too, and does so with an extremely heavy heart, but he does it sometimes. Hell, he pulled out green K and watched three Kyrptonians wither and die in agony at the finale of Byrne's run. But it doesn't fit the narrative of "Diana ENDS it!" Yeah, she talks about it more and is more receptive of doing it, but this paints both rather poorly. Rucka planned to give Diana her own fallout from killing Lord but DC just didn't rehire him despite letting him believe he'd be able to further develop that plotline. So instead she kills Max and moves on.

I'm pretty sure even Bruce "I never kill but I ally myself with murderers" Wayne has claimed he was going to kill his threats before, so boasts don't count.

I think Wonder Woman: Bloodlines had the best depiction of how Diana generally operates. She fights and subdues non-lethally 98% of the time against criminals and her own villains, and she only resorts to lethal force when she absolutely has no other option and is fighting something that can't be restrained in a traditional manner.

Bruce was genuinely trying to kill Joker after he killed Jason and only got stopped by a Joker "death." Batman raked Superman over the coals for trying to stop him when Clark told him what he did to the pocket dimension Kryptonians years later. And then there's the time he pulled a gun on Alexander Luthor when he thought Dick was dead.

[Psy-lock]

Gosh, it seems the neck snap will hunt her character forever...As well as that awful "when I deal with them I deal with them" line

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I think it all comes down to their upbringing. There are a lot of similarities, but there are some key differences.

Clark was raised to hide who he was, which has ingrained a certain degree of paranoia within him that remains to this day. He's far more cautious about his actions because he was always afraid of revealing his secret. Whereas Diana was raised as the only child on an isolated island full of adult women who worship the concept of truth. As a result, I think Diana is far less guarded and more open than Clark generally is around some people. That said, I think Clark is generally warmer and less aloof than Diana, who was brought up to honor the more formal behavior befitting royalty in a society that has its roots in antiquity.

I also think Clark is more improvisational than Diana, who trained rigorously with some of history's greatest warriors. Until the Legion came around, Clark learned how to use his powers largely through trial and error while Diana has been hard-wired to approach every situation tactically using advanced tactics and strategy.

There are too many similarities to list, though. Above all, they are both hopeless optimists.

[manwhohaseverything]

Wonder woman doesn't mind being in chain and submitting.Clark hates being in chains.He would get pissed if someone tried to box him in.Wonder woman is reverant of the past legends with heroes slaying monsters.Clark sees guys hunting "monsters" with skepticism,cause he's an alien.He doesn't care for glory nor vengence.Wonder woman has an affinity for glory.Clark is unruly and always makes a ruckus.Diana is calm,serene..etc.she brings peace.Superman's arrival doesn't always mean peace.Most of the time he is chaotic.But,he does bring hope for the oppressed and the weak.

Clark was raised to hide who he was, which has ingrained a certain degree of paranoia within him that remains to this day. He's far more cautious about his actions because he was always afraid of revealing his secret.

Actually as superman,he isn't afraid of anything.Superman was a mechanism to deal with all the **** and be himself.And i have to believe clark would have gotten rid of the glasses as well.Talk to people without lies cause he hates being in chains.Clark was an idealist.He values truth more than anything.It's just he had to make compromises.

[Killerbee911]

She can never live that down anymore than Cavill's Superman...
.

In her case it is actually a positive I think. It is the definitive case of her being more pragmatic(imo) to Batman and Superman no kill period. I like the contrast of Batman,Superman,Flash being "no kill"guys and Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Aquaman being "kill if it is last resort" people. For me I see them as "Heroes" and "Warriors".

[manwhohaseverything]

In her case it is actually a positive I think. It is the definitive case of her being more pragmatic(imo) to Batman and Superman no kill period. I like the contrast of Batman,Superman,Flash being "no kill"guys and Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Aquaman being "kill if it is last resort" people. For me I see them as "Heroes" and "Warriors".

Wonder woman is "greek".Right?if we are going by that warrior thing

this is quite plausible.Seeing as this comes from this,i believe.

[Robanker]

Wonder woman doesn't mind being in chain and submitting.Clark hates being in chains.He would get pissed if someone tried to box him in.Wonder woman is reverant of the past legends with heroes slaying monsters.Clark sees guys hunting "monsters" with skepticism,cause he's an alien.He doesn't care for glory nor vengence.Wonder woman has an affinity for glory.Clark is unruly and always makes a ruckus.Diana is calm,serene..etc.she brings peace.Superman's arrival doesn't always mean peace.Most of the time he is chaotic.But,he does bring hope for the oppressed and the weak.


Actually as superman,he isn't afraid of anything.Superman was a mechanism to deal with all the **** and be himself.And i have to believe clark would have gotten rid of the glasses as well.Talk to people without lies cause he hates being in chains.Clark was an idealist.He values truth more than anything.It's just he had to make compromises.

The bondage thing is mostly in the Golden age and Morrison take. Yes, it crops up sometimes, but not as much as you're implying.

Moreover, most consider Morrison a pretty bad take on Diana across his career. Not the best example.

[Robanker]

Wonder woman is "greek".Right?if we are going by that warrior thing

this is quite plausible.Seeing as this comes from this,i believe.

This kills me. I'm Greek-American, first generation born to two Greek immigrants. Diana is a Halloween costume that doesn't really represent my parents' culture outside of superficial elements tied to a romanticized view of their mythology. It's like saying the Tom Cruise films The Last Samurai and Valkyrie represent Japanese and German customs accurately because of the costumes and names.

Diana is an excellent character, but she's an American abstraction of Greek mythology which itself has been carefully cherry picked to be appealing to people who like the stories they've heard second hand. She's not in any way Greek. She just wears the costume. Themyscira itself isn't even considered part of Greece in DC.

Finally, that page is really out of character for Diana. She would never desecrate the body of one of her closest friends when she knows full well his wishes would be to be buried like his loved ones before him. She's better than that.

But then Diana's fandom is being overtaken by people who want her to be an edgy murderer so I guess this is acceptable now.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I've been mulling this over a little more and I think I've come up with an even simpler way of distinguishing between Clark and Diana. At heart, Clark is a big dork whereas Diana is easily the coolest woman in any room she's in.

[Killerbee911]

if we are going by that warrior thing

I meant more Heroes care more about "how" the fight is won to change hearts and minds. Warriors care more about make sure they "win" the fight to save the innocents. I don't think either approach is wrong.

[manwhohaseverything]

The bondage thing is mostly in the Golden age and Morrison take. Yes, it crops up sometimes, but not as much as you're implying.

Moreover, most consider Morrison a pretty bad take on Diana across his career. Not the best example.

You think superman is chaotic?They call him the big blue boyscout.Let alone be chaotic and run around.Almost everything i posted is more goldenage.I am not particularly into popular takes and stuff like that.

This kills me. I'm Greek-American, first generation born to two Greek immigrants. Diana is a Halloween costume that doesn't really represent my parents' culture outside of superficial elements tied to a romanticized view of their mythology. It's like saying the Tom Cruise films The Last Samurai and Valkyrie represent Japanese and German customs accurately because of the costumes and names.

Diana is an excellent character, but she's an American abstraction of Greek mythology which itself has been carefully cherry picked to be appealing to people who like the stories they've heard second hand. She's not in any way Greek. She just wears the costume. Themyscira itself isn't even considered part of Greece in DC.

Finally, that page is really out of character for Diana. She would never desecrate the body of one of her closest friends when she knows full well his wishes would be to be buried like his loved ones before him. She's better than that.

But then Diana's fandom is being overtaken by people who want her to be an edgy murderer so I guess this is acceptable now.

They are all abstraction.Many of them are bad.All i am saying is everything has a shadow and everything is viewed through prisms.Anything can be made into bad.The writer took the whole perseus thing in a different direction like how miller took donner's white knight superman in a different direction.I put the word greek in double quotes for a reason.Also,almost all old western warrior stories are basically based around slaying monsters.it's just a pattern i have been noticing.Rarely did i find any stories where the heroes as another type of being and not either a demi god,human or god.It's just how it is.It's not particularly just greek.Clark would be toast had diana been norse or something.

[Alpha]

Wonder woman is "greek".Right?if we are going by that warrior thing

this is quite plausible.Seeing as this comes from this,i believe.

Not really greek. The amazons were supposed to be a foreign nation even within greek mythology. But everything was violent and brutal at the time so it doesn't matter.
That said, in my view, the amazons wouldn't have fought a war in millenia. They train for an hypothetical invasion, bit it has never happened. So they wouldn't really be violent today.

[Alpha]

I don't see much difference between Wonder Woman and Superman these days, at least not without blowback. I think if I were to try to distinguish them, it would be that Diana has preconceived notions as an outsider that a sometimes wrong, unlike Clark who grew up as an insider without much understanding of his background. This may make Diana come across as above-it-all, unlike Clark. On the other hand, I'd give Wonder Woman more of a disregard for the rules than Clark, who can break the rules if absolutely necessary, but who wants to avoid making enemies or really stirring the pot, potentially making things worse. Wonder Woman wouldn't care about what the UN has to say about some humanitarian issue, while Clark would be concerned that he's causing a bigger issue in the long-term by interfering. I guess, in that sense, Wonder Woman would be more optimistic about the effect she could have on the world, being more ambitious about social causes, while Clark wants to keep people safe and leave them some room to make their own decisions and own mistakes. Of course, he's not going to just watch people get hurt, but he's not going to interfere in a war zone unless things are particularly screwy. Since she was raised as a warrior while Clark was not, I would have Diana be more decisive about how to end a crisis than Clark, who tries to find better solutions, even if that puts lives at risk. In that situation, both are right and both are wrong. It's gray, especially if Clark is shown to be wrong in some situations. In contrast to Batman, she's more considerate of other's feelings, like Clark, but is also more practical like Bruce in terms of not seeking out the perfect solution--just what works best in the moment for most people!

Those are way to many comparisons to distinct characters. It's hard for me to mesh it all together.

Also, I hate when people describe Diana as having certain traits from Batman and certain traits from Superman, as if they were the spectrum of her personality. Each one ofnthese characters has their own driving motivations and aspirations, that have nothing to do with each other. The reasons why they do what they do, and the barometer for how they will act or react is defined by her own distinct desires and faults