And irregardless, I simply don't think the idea of pragmatist as a defining feature makes sense. I don't think any of these characters should be considered non pragmatic. But at the end of the day they all have ideals that guide them, and all their decisions are dependant on those ideals.
Last edited by Alpha; 01-15-2021 at 01:21 PM.
Saying that one of Wonder Woman's defining features is "pragmatist" Is like saying she is also defined by her "maturity". Who the hell is gonna care about a character because they are "mature"? Every character is supposed to be mature and pragmatist, bthe exceptions are the ones that need to be defined as idealist, not everyone else.
Of the two, abuse is indefensible under any circumstances. But just because we have some loud fans saying they don't want him to kill but are are ok with the other stuff doesn't mean everyone is. It's hard to properly gather statistics just from people being loud on the internet.
Ideally, Batman is first and foremost a character created to entertain kids. If they want to avoid killing opponents that is perfectly fine (same with most superheroes that are also marketed at kids), and they should absolutely avoid the other stuff as well. All of it contributes to DC just being really bad at Batman despite pushing him so much.
My mistake, I thought you were referring only to the pre-Crisis lasso, which I know you don't view as favorably as the post-Crisis truth-only one.
You do realise,you are expecting morality to be of top priority in a narrative that is about vigilantism and lawlessness.Batman's a crazy jackass who is one step away from becoming a monster.That step is killing.You wouldn't like him if he were real.The only reason you or anyone likes him is cause he is fiction pulp character designed for entertainment and they have set up/written heroic qualities worth emulating in the dude.Also,if killing can be justified.then anything can.Playing poker with criminal won't get you answers.Torture is easy to justify.As if third degree tactics aren't used by many law enforcement wings around the world.
Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 01-15-2021 at 09:27 AM.
"People’s Dreams... Have No Ends"
At which point I imagine the character from Guardians of the Galaxy who responded to Starlord's introduction by saying "Who", would say something like "What?".
It would be a bit culturally specific it seems.
It could be a fun comedy scene. Considering modern Greek has quite a collection of such expressions, that list was probably on, but way too tame. They get way more raunchy than that. Maybe Diana could too. Clark OTOH, would blush like crazy hearing Diana talk like that...
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They have fairly different personalities. One is an introvert whereas the other is an extrovert and there are numerous other differences listed in this thread. They don't even have the same preocupations or strategies for resolving conflicts. People really are forcing this idea that they are similar because they focus on all the wrong aspects of each character.
Last edited by Alpha; 01-15-2021 at 10:16 AM.
Yes i expressed myself badly, what i meant was they have the same ideals and stand for the same thing like peace, justice, love, all that crap.
On the personality side i agreed they are different giving the exemple of how Diana don't mind being over violent when needed without regret.
I also agree and really like this:
Although WW while being more talkative and maybe proactive, i don't think she's that extrovert. She's not an attention seeker for example.
Last edited by the COMET; 01-15-2021 at 11:59 AM.
This might've been confusing. I was just trying to show that Batman's biggest fragility is that he will go at any lengths to reach his goals, and that he believes sacrifice is necessary for the greater good. And yet he believes that his utilitarian point of view is also based on empathy, which is kind of a contradiction, like in this situation. If he doesn't feel empathy for an unknowable number of people he will become insecure about the idea of greater good.
And while Superman would put utilitarianism above empathy, Wonder Woman would put empathy above utilitarianism. Batman is the most indecisive of the three when it comes to deciding this
Last edited by Alpha; 01-15-2021 at 01:29 PM.
I didn't say Ozymandias was being pragmatic. But what Dr Manhattan did was pragmatic. He understood that revealling the truth, would be putting ideals over reason. It would be a "good" action with bad consequences. I think Diana would absolutely refuse to keep the secret. So in this case she would be idealistic.
Last edited by Alpha; 01-15-2021 at 01:39 PM.