Who was the more interesting DCAU heroine: Wonder Woman or Hawkgirl?

[SecretWarrior]

DCAU (aka "Timmverse") versions only.





Please explain why.

[Primal Slayer]

Probably Hawkgirl since she was given a wider range of storylines and emotions to play with. She had an entire 3 part episode/movie set around her.

The Timmverse treated Wonder Woman more as a spoiled, angry amazon princess and were afraid to embrace the character or her world to the full extent.

[Gaius]

Hawkgirl but only because Timm's Wonder Woman and treatment of her larger world is largely subpar/terrible beyond casting Eisenberg as her voice actress.

[SecretWarrior]

Probably Hawkgirl since she was given a wider range of storylines and emotions to play with. She had an entire 3 part episode/movie set around her.

The Timmverse treated Wonder Woman more as a spoiled, angry amazon princess and were afraid to embrace the character or her world to the full extent.

Hawkgirl because Timm's Wonder Woman and treatment of her larger world is largely subpar/terrible beyond casting Eisenberg as her voice actress.

What specifically would you have liked to see done differently with her?

[Jon Clark]

There was an obvious hierarchy on the show. Batman was at the very top. John Stewart and Hawkgirl were next. And Diana was pretty much the bottom.

It makes sense as John and Shayera were pretty much redefined for the show. The writers either couldn't or didn't want to put their own stamp on Wonder Woman, so they focused more on characters they had more of a freehand with.

[Frontier]

What specifically would you have liked to see done differently with her?

More of her own mythos and villains used (and better compared to how they portrayed Cheetah and Giganta). A little more patience and compassion on-display. Less Batman shipping.

[SecretWarrior]

There was an obvious hierarchy on the show. Batman was at the very top. John Stewart and Hawkgirl were next. And Diana was pretty much the bottom.

It makes sense as John and Shayera were pretty much redefined for the show. The writers either couldn't or didn't want to put their own stamp on Wonder Woman, so they focused more on characters they had more of a freehand with.

Funny, I think Wonder Woman had more episodes dedicated specifically to her in the first two seasons than Batman, but I do think GL, Hawkgirl, and Flash played most prominently overall, probably because the creators had more creative freedom with the first two or because they wanted to justify their inclusion. Flash was comical, so he was likely fun to write. After those three, I'd say Batman and Superman, then Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter as well.

They tried to distinguish Wonder Woman's personality from Superman's, but she ended up being a royal version of their blue-collar version of Hawkgirl.

[SecretWarrior]

More of her own mythos and villains used (and better compared to how they portrayed Cheetah and Giganta). A little more patience and compassion on-display. Less Batman shipping.

She had her moments, but I think they tried to make her more aggressive to distinguish her from Superman and Martian Manhunter. And Superman wasn't always nice either; even he was pushed to the edge a few times, which I liked--made him feel more human, particularly during the Cadmus arc.

Circe, Faust, and Hades were done well, in my opinion. I think her villains played a smaller role in JLU, since Cadmus didn't have a huge magic component besides that one witch, who wasn't really used in the Cadmus arc. Batman's villains pretty much all disappeared during JLU because another Batman show was using them.

[Frontier]

They tried to distinguish Wonder Woman's personality from Superman's, but she ended up being a royal version of their blue-collar version of Hawkgirl.

I don't think there was anything particularly blue-collar about her? You mean her aggressive personality?

She had her moments, but I think they tried to make her more aggressive to distinguish her from Superman and Martian Manhunter. And Superman wasn't always nice either; even he was pushed to the edge a few times, which I liked--made him feel more human, particularly during the Cadmus arc.

Most Wonder Woman fans aren't big on making Diana more aggressive or Xena-like.

Superman fans still haven't let go of his treatment by Batman in that Darkseid two-parter...or that his big "letting loose" moment in the finale was basically worth nothing.

[Gaius]

What specifically would you have liked to see done differently with her?

-No Batman romance.
-Established hero before the series starts, no chopping up her origin or nerfing the lasso.
-Cheetah doesn't get seduced by Batman and then survives because of an animation error, replace all of Hades appearances with Ares, and not turned into a pig for Batman to rescue in Circe's one episode
-Way less "haughty spoiled princess" characterization.

[SecretWarrior]

I don't think there was anything particularly blue-collar about her? You mean her aggressive personality?

Most Wonder Woman fans aren't big on making Diana more aggressive or Xena-like.

Superman fans still haven't let go of his treatment by Batman in that Darkseid two-parter...or that his big "letting loose" moment in the finale was basically worth nothing.

Shayera would say things like Wonder Woman was a princess or stuck up, and we saw Shayera do things like go to bars and start fights. The closest Wonder Woman got to that was going to a bachelorette party with Princess Audrey of Kasnia.

I know Wonder Woman's fans don't want her to be aggressive, but she can't be the same as Superman personality-wise, and she has a warrior background unlike him. No two characters should feel the same with their only distinguishing features being their mythologies and appearances. That gets old quick and is a criticism of the Silver Age.

The creators mishandled Superman in the first season by having him get beat up to establish a threat, but they got better in Season 2 and later. What's wrong with the Superman and Batman dynamic they had? The characters didn't always agree, but Superman wasn't always in the wrong or written like a door mat.

[SecretWarrior]

-No Batman romance.
-Established hero before the series starts, no chopping up her origin or nerfing the lasso.
-Cheetah doesn't get seduced by Batman and then survives because of an animation error, replace all of Hades appearances with Ares, and not turned into a pig for Batman to rescue in Circe's one episode
-Way less "haughty spoiled princess" characterization.

I would guess that was to give her some character development as the show went along. I don't know what else they could have done with her character-wise besides the fish out of water thing, unless they made her redundant.

I suppose Batman or Flash could've been turned into the pig with WW saving him.

[SiegePerilous02]

Hawkgirl, but that's mostly because this was the best version of Shayera ever. And this left much to be desired as a representation of Wonder Woman

[Frontier]

Shayera would say things like Wonder Woman was a princess or stuck up, and we saw Shayera do things like go to bars and start fights. The closest Wonder Woman got to that was going to a bachelorette party with Princess Audrey of Kasnia.

Does that make her particularly blue-collar? I mean, she was really a Thanagarian military officer.

I know Wonder Woman's fans don't want her to be aggressive, but she can't be the same as Superman personality-wise, and she has a warrior background unlike him. No two characters should feel the same with their only distinguishing features being their mythologies and appearances. That gets old quick and is a criticism of the Silver Age.

Wonder Woman's depiction was pretty pitch-perfect in the Bloodlines animated film and she wasn't very aggressive in that film, nor a carbon copy of Superman.

The creators mishandled Superman in the first season by having him get beat up to establish a threat, but they got better in Season 2 and later. What's wrong with the Superman and Batman dynamic they had? The characters didn't always agree, but Superman wasn't always in the wrong or written like a door mat.

There wasn't anything wrong with the Superman/Batman dynamic, it just seems like they always gave Batman an edge whenever an argument broke out between the two...or Batman just had to have last word in.

[Gaius]

I would guess that was to give her some character development as the show went along. I don't know what else they could have done with her character-wise besides the fish out of water thing, unless they made her redundant.

I suppose Batman or Flash could've been turned into the pig with WW saving him.

It was more because they said in behind the scenes stuff they didn't really look at much of WW's actual comic stuff beyond the most general basic entry stuff and pretty much went their own route with her.

It should have been Batman who was turned into animal, yes. But expecting Batman to get portrayed inferior to another hero anyone under Timm is a fool's errand.