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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    She had plenty of versatility before sword and shield. She also has: Astral projection, dimensional traveling, some magical spells, force shields, fires of hestia, lightning of zeus, gaea's regeneration and reformation, bracelets healing field, divine indestructibility, force to tell the truth, force feeding the truth, negating transformations and magic, countering reality alteration to a degree, seeing souls, entering souls, catching souls, trapping people inside their souls, able to attack souls, weak spot detection and divinity detection, magical super stretching, magical super sharpness, divine sight and seeing through illusions thanks to the sight of Athena, telepathy resistance, magic resistance, channeling the godwave, talking with animals, super senses, super intelligence, super fast language learning, divine beauty and longevity to a high degree.
    Most of these are powers that were used a handful of times and divine beauty isn't even a power. The most consistent power the lasso has had is making people tell the truth.

    On the other hand. The sword is far more one dimensional compared to what the lasso can do. And the shield doesn't hold a candle to the bracelets in terms of a defensive weapon. As the bracelets allow more versatility and mobility. And are far better to have badass fighting scenes showing super speed and skills to block and deflect attacks, than the shield could ever dream of.
    Any defense that requires maximum movement to work is not a very good defense. The bracelets are highly impractical for protection, especially when you consider they only cover her wrists.

  2. #32
    Fantastic Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Most of these are powers that were used a handful of times and divine beauty isn't even a power. The most consistent power the lasso has had is making people tell the truth.



    Any defense that requires maximum movement to work is not a very good defense. The bracelets are highly impractical for protection, especially when you consider they only cover her wrists.
    That is hardly the only consistent power of the lasso.

    The bracelets throughout their history have done everything a shield does and better. And they are more useful since she doesn't have to stand in one place to receive the incoming attack, and can use them to deflect and redirect attacks in all directions at once. The bracelets also allow for better showings of super speed, reflexes and skills than a shield. They are far more dynamic and suited for a visually great and energetic fighting scene than a shield.

  3. #33
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    What about if we Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter this and put a rifle barrel in the hilt of her blade so the pommel can kick out and she shoots someone?!
    Now this is a person who understands great storytelling.

  4. #34
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Depending on the circumstances, yes. However, Thor doesn't have a history of using a sword the same way Wonder Woman does and his weapon is a lot more versatile than Diana's is.
    Fine, I'm okay with Wonder Woman using a sword and shield as frequently as Thor does. And have you not seen WW84? It's a magic lasso that moves in unnatural ways, there are countless things she can do with it once she lassos an enemy, or even if she doesn't. It can grab things, it can be a whip, it can knock people around, I think it should be able to create a barrier when she spins it, and since we're adding powers to her I don't see why this would be a bad thing. It can strangle people, it can tie them together, make them dangle from places, etc. Thor's hammer is much less versatile. The new Immortal Wonder Woman book from Future State seems to be using the lasso in very creatives ways based on the previews.

    And her using a sword and shield is one of those bad habits that creators have forced down our throats over the years instead of using interesting combinations of her lasso and bracelets and tiara with other things. It's not an important and emblematic part of her history.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    A lasso and a pair of hands do not have the same function as a sword. Unless you're arguing against her using lethal force altogether, saying a Lasso and bracelets will serve the same function as a sword and shield is absurd to say the least.
    YES! Once DC abandoned Marston's ideas DC became at a loss as to what to do with Wonder Woman. They gave her so many different characterizations because they didn't understand what to do with a feminist character whose stories are about feminine identity. And so they focused on the idea of an embassador, or a warrior. Both are aspects of her, but neither are the core of the character. Her goal isn't to kill anybody. She knows how to kill, and she knows when she must do it, even though it hurts her. But she is always trying to subdue others. THAT'S THE POINT OF THE LASSO. And once again, even if she wants to kill them, there are plenty of hurtful uses of the lasso if necessary. And she is freaking strong dude. She can kill just with her hands. The sword is so far away from her appeal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Superman gets new powers all the time. Batman frequently updates his arsenal. The Flash is constantly coming up with new applications for super speed. But Wonder Woman getting a new weapon that doesn't replace her old ones causes so much damn controversy.
    I freaking hate when they try to give Superman new powers. His powers are fine, he doesn't need any more. And many of the powers they give Flash are absolutely ridiculous. I actually have new ideas about how his powers should work, that the writers have never done, but infinite mass punch is super dumb.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The only thing a sword and shield does is how Diana's versatility and gives her more options in a battle since she is primarily a close range fighter. No one supporting the use of the sword is asking for the lasso to be removed which is what the paranoia over the sword is really about.
    A sword shows versatility? A sword? It's the most basic weapon there is. If you want versatility let her use nunchucks, or a flail. And why would she need a sword at close quarters? She should fight like a wrestler. Grapples and quick kicks and punches to subdue the enemy. Let her use the lasso to strangle if what you want is her to be lethal.
    Last edited by Alpha; 01-15-2021 at 04:31 PM.

  5. #35
    Incredible Member Amazon Swordsman's Avatar
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    I’d actually welcome the Captain America comparisons if she just used a shield.

  6. #36
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    Serious question: does anyone expect Wonder Woman to use a sword and shield when she fights human enemies? Gods and monsters, okay, but I can't really see her using a sword against Dr. Psycho, Giganta, or Silver Swan. And most of her recurring villains are humans, so it would make sense that she likely wouldn't use the sword that often.

  7. #37
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    Serious question: does anyone expect Wonder Woman to use a sword and shield when she fights human enemies? Gods and monsters, okay, but I can't really see her using a sword against Dr. Psycho, Giganta, or Silver Swan. And most of her recurring villains are humans, so it would make sense that she likely wouldn't use the sword that often.
    Yeah. I don't think the sword and shield are the only problems when it comes to characterizations that make her one-note lethal (they'd find other reasons to do it), and they are appropriate against Gods and monsters. Plus they add some occasional visual variety. But she has no need to use it against most of the mortal supervillains in her rogues gallery. She just looks awkward when using it against Silver Swan. If she's not going to stab Vanessa, isn't it a bit cumbersome to lug it around? Why not free up her hands?

    There is also the fact that she can and has fought Gods and monsters without swords. So while it isn't unwelcome in that scenario, it also isn't a strict requirement.

  8. #38
    Incredible Member wonder39's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Most of these are powers that were used a handful of times and divine beauty isn't even a power. The most consistent power the lasso has had is making people tell the truth.



    Any defense that requires maximum movement to work is not a very good defense. The bracelets are highly impractical for protection, especially when you consider they only cover her wrists.
    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    That is hardly the only consistent power of the lasso.

    The bracelets throughout their history have done everything a shield does and better. And they are more useful since she doesn't have to stand in one place to receive the incoming attack, and can use them to deflect and redirect attacks in all directions at once. The bracelets also allow for better showings of super speed, reflexes and skills than a shield. They are far more dynamic and suited for a visually great and energetic fighting scene than a shield.
    This x100

    ...and i think what most folks don't get, is that her classic weapons and generally perceived as defensive. Yes, in modern times ( Perez) her tiara has been used to decapitate ( Deimos, as a last ditch effort to save herself) , but the lasso ensnares, incapacitates. The bracelets deflect. They're to be the opposite of most weapons, stabbing slicing, killing, etc

    It's a purposeful choice.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Fine, I'm okay with Wonder Woman using a sword and shield as frequently as Thor does. And have you not seen WW84? It's a magic lasso that moves in unnatural ways, there are countless things she can do with it once she lassos an enemy, or even if she doesn't. It can grab things, it can be a whip, it can knock people around, I think it should be able to create a barrier when she spins it, and since we're adding powers to her I don't see why this would be a bad thing. It can strangle people, it can tie them together, make them dangle from places, etc. Thor's hammer is much less versatile. The new Immortal Wonder Woman book from Future State seems to be using the lasso in very creatives ways based on the previews.
    You do know that Thor's hammer does more than just hit things, right?


    And her using a sword and shield is one of those bad habits that creators have forced down our throats over the years instead of using interesting combinations of her lasso and bracelets and tiara with other things. It's not an important and emblematic part of her history.
    Nor is it the blight you keep exaggerating it as.


    YES! Once DC abandoned Marston's ideas DC became at a loss as to what to do with Wonder Woman. They gave her so many different characterizations because they didn't understand what to do with a feminist character whose stories are about feminine identity. And so they focused on the idea of an embassador, or a warrior. Both are aspects of her, but neither are the core of the character. Her goal isn't to kill anybody. She knows how to kill, and she knows when she must do it, even though it hurts her. But she is always trying to subdue others. THAT'S THE POINT OF THE LASSO. And once again, even if she wants to kill them, there are plenty of hurtful uses of the lasso if necessary. And she is freaking strong dude. She can kill just with her hands. The sword is so far away from her appeal.
    Again, no one is asking to get rid of the lasso. As for being strong, Diana has been over powered before.

    A sword shows versatility? A sword? It's the most basic weapon there is.
    Don't be obtuse. A sword shows her versatility as a trained fighter who knows how to use multiple weapons.

    And why would she need a sword at close quarters?
    Did you actually ask this as a serious question?

    If you want versatility let her use nunchucks, or a flail. She should fight like a wrestler. Grapples and quick kicks and punches to subdue the enemy.
    So, a sword is out of place in Wonder Woman but nunchucks and flail aren't?

    Let her use the lasso to strangle if what you want is her to be lethal.
    I thought the lasso was supposed to be a non-lethal weapon?

    Seriously, the mental gymnastics on display here are worthy of an Olympic gold medal.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    Serious question: does anyone expect Wonder Woman to use a sword and shield when she fights human enemies? Gods and monsters, okay, but I can't really see her using a sword against Dr. Psycho, Giganta, or Silver Swan. And most of her recurring villains are humans, so it would make sense that she likely wouldn't use the sword that often.
    Again, who is asking for Diana to use those weapons against Silver Swan or Dr Psycho. Giganta wouldn't be unreasonable given she's a giant who frequently tries to kill people but it seems that the anti-sword crowd are responding to arguments that no one is making.

  11. #41
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    You do know that Thor's hammer does more than just hit things, right?
    It controls the weather including lightning (I mean technically it's only focussing Thor's own ability but whatever), it can hit things both at a distance and at close range, it can spin around in Thor's hand in order to create a type of protection via vortex (which the lasso should also do). That's it as far as I can remember. The lasso still has more unique uses in battle and otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Don't be obtuse. A sword shows her versatility as a trained fighter who knows how to use multiple weapons.
    And if what you want is to show her using diverse weapons there are plenty of more interesting choices than a sword. A spear for example, an axe, what have you. But like I said, I don't really think it's important to show her using other weapons, those she already has already do everything she needs

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Did you actually ask this as a serious question?
    SHE HAS SUPERSTRENGTH. She doesn't need a sword at close quarters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    So, a sword is out of place in Wonder Woman but nunchucks and flail aren't?
    You wanted weapons that showed versatility. Nunchucks and flails are at least remotely related to the lasso in terms of technique. Much more than a sword

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I thought the lasso was supposed to be a non-lethal weapon?
    Yes, it's supposed to be, although it can be used lethally. But there's a difference between a sword's primary function being lethal and a lasso's secondary function being lethal. And the second one makes more sense with Diana's principles.

    But I will emphasize this: I accept Wonder Woman using a sword just as many times as Thor uses one. So if you think she can use both her normal weapons and a sword I agree as long as it's with this frequency. If she uses it anymore it's a distortion of the character because she has no intentions of being lethal, only subdoing. And if she wants to be lethal she can just use her hands, or her lasso.
    Last edited by Alpha; 01-16-2021 at 12:53 AM.

  12. #42
    Mighty Member John Venus's Avatar
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    If you are arguing about versatility, then the lasso is better than the sword.

  13. #43
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    It controls the weather including lightning (I mean technically it's only focussing Thor's own ability but whatever), it can hit things both at a distance and at close range, it can spin around in Thor's hand in order to create a type of protection via vortex (which the lasso should also do). That's it as far as I can remember. The lasso still has more unique uses in battle and otherwise.
    I thought Mjöllnir also allowed Thor to "fly" (by Thor basically "throwing" the hammer and being carried with the hammer), but then again, it's been ages since I actually read a Thor comic book story.

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member El_Gato's Avatar
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    Warrior Woman is here to stay and for that I am grateful! WW84 was terrible and just proved to me why loathe pacifist Diana. Sword and Shield Diana has proven to be popular thanks to the DCEU and Injustice (despite being written out of character, she has the sword and shield mostly. The Lasso and Bracelets are cool but so are the sword and shield. I say keep everything and make her an action packed hero, as she should be.
    Done with DC. Can't handle the constant whiplash! Time to go on a hiatus!

  15. #45
    Fantastic Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    WW:84 just took things to the extreme with her trying not to cause anyone harm but the lasso action was fantastic. They just need a good medium between the two.

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