The original planned ending for Greg Rucka's first WW run

[AlexLyo]

Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere and I missed it.

I've been enjoying Greg Rucka's frequent appearances on Mimi Chan's culture chat podcast, and for the first time heard him speaking about what he had originally planned for his ending to the WW run before he was fired for Heinberg to take over. Apparently he's spoken on this before, but I had no idea.

You can catch it about 45 mins into this episode: 157. Greg Rucka on comic book audiences and movies episode of Culture Chat with Mimi Chan https://www.culturechatpodcast.com/gregrucka6/. (it's also on Spotify if you have that.)

What do people think of his plans? I had no idea about his planned Trial of Wonder Woman, and was also SUPER surprised learning that Amazons Attack would have originally been his story.

As per usual, I find myself super sad he didn't get to finish that run, because as wild as some of those ideas are, I totally trust he would have delivered them beautifully.

[Gaius]

Interesting, never heard Rucka talk about this. Always heard it among conversations among fans. Sounds like it could have led to something interesting stories (at least in comparison to the Amazons Attack that we got) but kinda unsurprising Didio and Johns seemed to jump on the idea of a "Diana kills" situation.

also lol, I love the roles Supes and Bats roles would have played in this from his description.

[AlexLyo]

Interesting, never heard Rucka talk about this. Always heard it among conversations among fans. Sounds like it could have led to something interesting stories (at least in comparison to the Amazons Attack that we got) but kinda unsurprising Didio and Johns seemed to jump on the idea of a "Diana kills" situation.

also lol, I love the roles Supes and Bats roles would have played in this from his description.

Batman and Superman being baffled by the depths of Diana's integrity without actively fighting with her is a really lovely way for them to keep their relationships interesting, complex and still full of affection. I dig it.

[Largo161]

His plans sounded very interesting to me. He sold me with his acting out of the different character points of view.

(Also dug his take on DC movies vs Marvel movies.)

[I'm a Fish]

The Amazon's Attack story sounds super entertaining. The Amazon's defeating the U.S. sounds pretty funny.
I wish we got to see a proper fallout with Diana killing Max Lord. For them to make Greg have Diana kill someone in that fashion, and then he never got to properly tie that story up had major fallouts for the character. Even 16 years after the comic came out, DC is still trying to clean it up when it's way too late. Now I wonder how he feels about the 3rd act of WW84 since they didn't do what we all thought they where gonna do, which is Diana snapping Maxwell Lords neck.

I also thought what he said about Wonder Woman's movie being an unapologetic superhero film was interesting. We actually got really close to a Wonder Woman film like that with what Snyder wanted.

A bit off topic but pertaining to the podcast, how he calls comic "IP farming" made me realize that comics aren't going to go away as long as the TV shows, Movies, Games and Toys are successful. There's been a lot of talk about WB trying to choke out the comic book industry, but why would they ever do that when they can milk off of it and get billions of dollars off of the other mediums.

[Primal Slayer]

Well now Im sad all over again....thank you Didio for messing up yet another storyline.

I want the whole Sacrafice storyline adapted SOOOOOOOOOOO BADLY. In a perfect DC cinematic world, we would've gotten it.

Also his take on DC/Marvel movies was spot on. Why Johns helps with the WW movies vs. someone like Rucka is beyond me.

[Gaius]

Batman and Superman being baffled by the depths of Diana's integrity without actively fighting with her is a really lovely way for them to keep their relationships interesting, complex and still full of affection. I dig it.

Yeah, it definitely would have made them playing finger wagging moral high ground on the killing issue almost worth it.

[I'm a Fish]

Well now Im sad all over again....thank you Didio for messing up yet another storyline.

I want the whole Sacrafice storyline adapted SOOOOOOOOOOO BADLY. In a perfect DC cinematic world, we would've gotten it.

Also his take on DC/Marvel movies was spot on. Why Johns helps with the WW movies vs. someone like Rucka is beyond me.

Bit of a tangent here but there's a movie on HBO max about DC villains, called Necessary Evil it came out in 2013. I watched it and the only Wonder Woman Villain they go into detail with at all was Cheetah, and it was Johns who went into detail because he wrote her into Justice League so he was the only one they were interviewing who had even written a WW villain...

They when into detail with Batman's, Superman's, Flash's and Green Lantern's villains and how important they are to the hero. But Wonder Woman? Gets a 1 minute clip talking about Cheetah and no one else. Just goes to show DC's appreciation for the character before the Wonder Woman movie dropped and she made them loads of money.


Maybe Patty will ask for Rucka for the 3rd script. With everything going on with Joss, and by association, Johns, she might want someone else's help for the next script. She already said she was going to re-write parts of it, and she does listen to the fans and knows Rucka is a fan favorite. (And the success of The Old Guard couldn't hurt either).

[Gaius]

Bit of a tangent here but there's a movie on HBO max about DC villains, called Necessary Evil it came out in 2013. I watched it and the only Wonder Woman Villain they go into detail with at all was Cheetah, and it was Johns who went into detail because he wrote her into Justice League so he was the only one they were interviewing who had even written a WW villain...

They when into detail with Batman's, Superman's, Flash's and Green Lantern's villains and how important they are to the hero. But Wonder Woman? Gets a 1 minute clip talking about Cheetah and no one else. Just goes to show DC's appreciation for the character before the Wonder Woman movie dropped and she made them loads of money.


Maybe Patty will ask for Rucka for the 3rd script. With everything going on with Joss, and by association, Johns, she might want someone else's help for the next script. She already said she was going to re-write parts of it, and she does listen to the fans and knows Rucka is a fan favorite. (And the success of The Old Guard couldn't hurt either).

I'm not particularly surprised, that wouldn't have been too long after Johns wrote the "I don't have a list of enemies as long you or Bruce. When I deal with my enemies, I deal with them" quote from his JL run and Azz didn't make use of any of WW's rogues from his run as villains.

[Bruce Wayne]

It's interesting bits and pieces of this idea like investigating WW for the murder were actually implemented in other books (such as Manhunter). Not to mention of course repackaging his ideas into Amazons Attack. I am guessing this is another instance of where editorial took Rucka's ideas and put their spin on it using more pliant writers like Pfeifer and Picault.

[Stanlos]

Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere and I missed it.

I've been enjoying Greg Rucka's frequent appearances on Mimi Chan's culture chat podcast, and for the first time heard him speaking about what he had originally planned for his ending to the WW run before he was fired for Heinberg to take over. Apparently he's spoken on this before, but I had no idea.

You can catch it about 45 mins into this episode: 157. Greg Rucka on comic book audiences and movies episode of Culture Chat with Mimi Chan https://www.culturechatpodcast.com/gregrucka6/. (it's also on Spotify if you have that.)

What do people think of his plans? I had no idea about his planned Trial of Wonder Woman, and was also SUPER surprised learning that Amazons Attack would have originally been his story.

As per usual, I find myself super sad he didn't get to finish that run, because as wild as some of those ideas are, I totally trust he would have delivered them beautifully.

Amazons Attack was going to be a very different story from the poo poo platter de DiDio that we got. The seeds were planted during the Archons visit with the Cabinet members during the Stoned storyline

[Stanlos]

If memory serves, one of the B plots was that Athena and Darkseid would be engaged in a Cold War

[Perseus]

If memory serves, one of the B plots was that Athena and Darkseid would be engaged in a Cold War

Now that just sounds amazing.

[Primal Slayer]

Maybe Patty will ask for Rucka for the 3rd script. With everything going on with Joss, and by association, Johns, she might want someone else's help for the next script. She already said she was going to re-write parts of it, and she does listen to the fans and knows Rucka is a fan favorite. (And the success of The Old Guard couldn't hurt either).

Joss never had any influence on the WW movies but I dont see anything coming of Johns so he'll likely still be very involved, esp since she seems to like him.

[Frank]

It's interesting that he acknowledges that snapping Lord's neck, regardless of it being a defensive move, is a major traumatic event for the character and that she would understand that her relationship to the world would have been forever changed. And I love that he had a year arc for coming to some kind of resolution, and even then, it wouldn't necessarily have "redeemed" her reputation in the DCU. His storyline definitely sounds more interesting than what would have happened, although it's perhaps hard to fit action into a lawsuit storyline, and I'm sure there would have been complaints about the title becoming a legal drama.

I remember reading Peter David's thought on how "the snapping" was an incredible disservice to the character because she would forever be associated with it - that it would shift her fundamental status to the character's detriment. At the time, I thought "Nah - she was justified, and this is comics. Nothing lasts forever." And fifteen years later, that's still a fixed point for her, something that just won't go away.

On a side note, I wonder if, when Rucka sees WW84, he'll be pleasantly surprised that Diana doesn't kill Max in the film?