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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    Titans did a good job of showing how a Wonder doesnt need a sword even in a sword fight. Donna uses her lasso against Deathstroke the entire time.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb2b...stAndFurious4K
    And is soundly defeated.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    That Titans clip is quite dope. The lasso has an incredible amount of versatility and making her relly on a sword is a disrespect to both this and her super strength. If you want a good measure of how much she should use a sword then look at Thor. There are instances of him using the sword, it's not a regular thing for him because his powers and mjolnir can fix almost every situation.
    How is relying on her sword disrespectful to her strength but the lasso isn't? People keep talking about the purported versatility of the lasso as if it hasn't been evaded or broken numerous times and that its various abilities aren't frequently ignored at the writer's convenience.

  3. #63
    Fantastic Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    And is soundly defeated.
    But she isnt defeated because of her weaponry.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    That is hardly the only consistent power of the lasso.
    Yes it is. Making people tell the truth is the only thing that it is guaranteed to do. Most of the time, it just behaves like a really strong rope and even that isn't always the case since it has been broken or evaded several times.

    The bracelets throughout their history have done everything a shield does and better. And they are more useful since she doesn't have to stand in one place to receive the incoming attack, and can use them to deflect and redirect attacks in all directions at once. The bracelets also allow for better showings of super speed, reflexes and skills than a shield. They are far more dynamic and suited for a visually great and energetic fighting scene than a shield.
    The bracelets cover only one part of her body and are useless if she can't see the attack coming or the opponent is smart and fast enough to shoot somewhere other than her upper torso.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    But she isnt defeated because of her weaponry.
    It sure didn't do her any favors. Alpha's main argument is that using a sword disrespect's a wonder's true power and Donna sure doesn't come across as very powerful in that fight with Deathstroke. The lasso is not this invincible weapon people are arguing it is.

  6. #66
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    How is relying on her sword disrespectful to her strength but the lasso isn't? People keep talking about the purported versatility of the lasso as if it hasn't been evaded or broken numerous times and that its various abilities aren't frequently ignored at the writer's convenience.
    A sword is used as piercing strength. She doesn't need piercing strength because she has super strength. The lasso can grab things in shapes her hands can't and bind them with other things, and it has reach. What you are criticizing is the inconsistent and underwhelming use of the lasso, and I agree with that. The sword is the opposite of a solution.
    Last edited by Alpha; 01-16-2021 at 11:14 PM.

  7. #67
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    It sure didn't do her any favors. Alpha's main argument is that using a sword disrespect's a wonder's true power and Donna sure doesn't come across as very powerful in that fight with Deathstroke. The lasso is not this invincible weapon people are arguing it is.
    Lol wtf, a sword has also been broken or disarmed and thrown away by an enemy, and it has happened many times. If the writers choose to make something bad, then it will be bad. Doesn't mean the concept itself is. Judge things on an individual conceptual basis. The sword fails a conceptual test because it undermines everything else she does, and it doesn't fit with her mentality and goals in a fight. but once again, I am not even completely denying the use of the sword, I'm saying it should be used as frequently as Thor uses a sword.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    It controls the weather including lightning (I mean technically it's only focussing Thor's own ability but whatever), it can hit things both at a distance and at close range, it can spin around in Thor's hand in order to create a type of protection via vortex (which the lasso should also do). That's it as far as I can remember. The lasso still has more unique uses in battle and otherwise.
    The only purpose the lasso serves in battle is snaring opponents which is what it mostly did in 1984. Most of its other unusual abilities get ignored or removed and it has been defeated several times. It is not the indestructible weapon you think it is.



    And if what you want is to show her using diverse weapons there are plenty of more interesting choices than a sword. A spear for example, an axe, what have you. But like I said, I don't really think it's important to show her using other weapons, those she already has already do everything she needs
    So you don't have an issue with her using weapons other than the lasso, you just hate the sword. And no, she doesn't just have everything she needs. Again, the lasso has been defeated before and smart fighters do not rely on just one weapon.

    SHE HAS SUPERSTRENGTH. She doesn't need a sword at close quarters.
    I honestly don't know if you're trolling or just ignoring what I say. Her super strength is not 100% reliable. She has been physically overpowered multiple times and had to rely on other weapons in order to win. And this was happening before DC had her using a sword regularly. Which part of this is confusing you here?


    You wanted weapons that showed versatility.
    It's like talking to a wall here. Versatility in her skillset not versatility in her weapons.


    Nunchucks and flails are at least remotely related to the lasso in terms of technique.
    Diana is supposed to be the best fighter the Amazons have ever produced. If she can only use weapons similar in technique to a lasso, she is not that great a fighter.



    Yes, it's supposed to be, although it can be used lethally. But there's a difference between a sword's primary function being lethal and a lasso's secondary function being lethal. And the second one makes more sense with Diana's principles.
    Diana is not against killing. If she uses a sword it is because other options have failed. If she is going to kill, a sword makes more sense than a lasso.

    This is not a difficult concept to grasp. Unless, your real issue here is that you have a problem with Diana killing at all. In which case, that genie's been out of the bottle since Perez.

    But I will emphasize this: I accept Wonder Woman using a sword just as many times as Thor uses one. So if you think she can use both her normal weapons and a sword I agree as long as it's with this frequency.
    I have stated at least twice during this conversation that Diana should not discard the lasso entirely. The fact that the mere presence of the sword is this much of a controversy for anyone here is what makes even talking about it so damn frustrating.



    If she uses it anymore it's a distortion of the character because she has no intentions of being lethal, only subdoing. And if she wants to be lethal she can just use her hands, or her lasso.
    Again, this sounds more like your real issue is that you hate that Diana kills anyone at all. If she decides that lethal force is the only option left, then she absolutely does have intentions of killing. And a sword makes far more sense in that regard than a lasso.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Lol wtf, a sword has also been broken or disarmed and thrown away by an enemy, and it has happened many times. If the writers choose to make something bad, then it will be bad. Doesn't mean the concept itself is. Judge things on an individual conceptual basis. The sword fails a conceptual test because it undermines everything else she does, and it doesn't fit with her mentality and goals in a fight. but once again, I am not even completely denying the use of the sword, I'm saying it should be used as frequently as Thor uses a sword.
    You're not even following your own rules here. You claim that a concept isn't bad just because of how a writer uses it yet repeatedly and consistently condemn the sword. You say you aren't against the sword but call it undermining to Diana. Diana's goals are not static. She is not going to approach every fight the same way and the sword doesn't get broken or beaten nearly as often as the lasso has.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    A sword is used as piercing strength. She doesn't need piercing strength because she has super strength.
    How many times do I have to say it?

    Diana's strength is not always reliable and she has been overpowered before.


    The lasso can grab things in shapes her hands can't and bind them with other things, and it has reach. What you are criticizing is the inconsistent and underwhelming use of the lasso, and I agree with that. The sword is the opposite of a solution.
    The lasso's reach and strength still have limits. It has been evaded and broken by stronger enemies. A smart fighter does not rely on just one weapon and the sword is a solution not the solution.

    Once more with feeling, the real issue people have with the sword is the paranoia that it will replace the lasso.

  11. #71
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    Bad writinf is bad writing. If a writer doesn't know how to use something, it doesn't become a bad idea out right. And while the lasso is conceptually a good idea, a sword isn't a good idea for Diana.

    People have this obsession with Diana being willing to kill. Yes she is, and it should hurt her emotionally. The amazons should be an isolated society that probably rarely went into a war between the time they left Man's world and Diana found Steve Trevor. So while they prepare and train for if they are invaded, they probably haven't killed many people over the millenia. Diana herself probably didn't kill anyone until she entered Man's World. This is what others choose to ignore, the concept behind the characters. She isn't Lady Sif who constantly gets into wars in the Nine Worlds. She is someone who since entering superhero life had to kill ocasionally, but she doesn't go into a fight expecting to kill (or at least she shouldn't if the writers actually wanted to think about the unique ideas that created her).

    Again, why is it ok for Wonder Woman to use a sword this much and not for Thor? It completely changes her aesthetic, values and aptitudes. You say her super strength has been shown as unreliable, well then that's what should be fixed. If the lasso breaks it's because writers want it to break. There's no reason to make it that unreliable. And ifthe only rhing it does is grab enemies and drag them to her it's because writers don't want to do anything else with her. Diana has such a unique set of weapons, no other character in the world does what she does with a lasso. Why would we spend time on a sword?

    Look the point is that you for some reason think a sword is this great thing that Diana always needed, and you simply tolerate the lasso because of it's history, not because you actually love it's uniqueness and versatility like we do. Which means nothing I say will change your opinion. I've already conceded that Diana can use the Sword as much as Thor, who also has an iconic and thematic weapon that is more than enough for him, and from time to time expands his set to include a sword. You are the one that refuses to understand how a sword goes against the appeal of the character, is a mute item since it doesn't create unique action choreography, and ends up being used in situations where the other things would've forced the writers to be creative.
    Last edited by Alpha; 01-17-2021 at 01:09 AM.

  12. #72
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    So you don't have an issue with her using weapons other than the lasso, you just hate the sword. And no, she doesn't just have everything she needs. Again, the lasso has been defeated before and smart fighters do not rely on just one weapon.

    It's like talking to a wall here. Versatility in her skillset not versatility in her weapons.

    Diana is supposed to be the best fighter the Amazons have ever produced. If she can only use weapons similar in technique to a lasso, she is not that great a fighter.
    I absolutely think the lasso and bracelets should be enough, but I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of saying she should be able to use more weapons and yet insisting on giving her the most basic weapon possible. Like if you want to add something to her, at least make it unique.
    Last edited by Alpha; 01-17-2021 at 01:08 AM.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    How many times do I have to say it?

    Diana's strength is not always reliable and she has been overpowered before.



    The lasso's reach and strength still have limits. It has been evaded and broken by stronger enemies. A smart fighter does not rely on just one weapon and the sword is a solution not the solution.

    Once more with feeling, the real issue people have with the sword is the paranoia that it will replace the lasso.
    ...I agree...I like the sword and shield too...but I don't want the lasso to be replaced either, but I do wish they will come up with more cooler lasso tricks that are already out there from rope dart techniques, how it was used properly in ancient times and modern western cowboy techniques. There were SOME cool parts, but in order for WW's lasso techniques to be really outstanding, they need better fight choreographers for this, and you will know this will be successful when it becomes a trend. Also, the lasso is best mildly golden glowing, not like a glow stick; it looks so off and CGish when it done too much. Overall, at least we can agree we all still like the lasso; I also miss it's circle of fire effects.

  14. #74
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Bad writinf is bad writing.
    I kinda wanna fix this typo, but it might also be the greatest thing I've ever written.

  15. #75
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Ok now that I think back, it's ridiculous how intense this has become. I genuinely do think the sword is a bad uncreative addition that doesn't fit within her themes and aesthetic and also makes it easier for writers and artists to be much less creative with the lasso, but it's not worth this much discussion. I know you mean well and want the best for the character and to you this is just people being insecure about the character and the lasso

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