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  1. #76
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    I kinda wanna fix this typo, but it might also be the greatest thing I've ever written.
    Not going to lie, I'm in awe.

    The fact is, most comic fans didn't like Wonder Woman because she was unlike most superheroes, so they have been homogenizing her into an archetype they see everywhere and now they get it; she's familiar now. Easy to grasp. She's the barbarian class in Gauntlet. It's going to stay because it's easier to sell to people. Why make them like Wonder Woman when you can just change who she is?

    It sucks, but there it is.

    On their own the sword and shield aren't problematic but they inform a severely less complex iteration of the character that is frankly far less unique or interesting. But hey, why hold the most recognizable and cherished female superhero sacred when you can morph her into a generic archetype so men like her more?

  2. #77
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Haha, thanks man.

    And yeah I totally agree. I loved WW84 (while still recognizing issues with the writing, but the issues that people complained about) and the fact that it got this response is sad, because it's actually the film where Diana has felt the most like Diana. Sure it's not specifically how I would write her, but I still totally feel that it is a really strong portrayal of her. Heck, even in tv shows I have a hard time finding better portrayals than this.

  3. #78
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Haha, thanks man.

    And yeah I totally agree. I loved WW84 (while still recognizing issues with the writing, but the issues that people complained about) and the fact that it got this response is sad, because it's actually the film where Diana has felt the most like Diana. Sure it's not specifically how I would write her, but I still totally feel that it is a really strong portrayal of her. Heck, even in tv shows I have a hard time finding better portrayals than this.
    The warrior element to her is definitely there but they always overcompensate to make her seem cool and it just feels like they're ashamed of Diana.

    It's like early in the first season of Arrow when they're all around a dinner table talking about the vigilante. Malcom Meryln suggests dubbing him "the green arrow" and it cuts to a deadpan Oliver Queen who says "lame" like every teen dismissing their parents.

    Oh. Sorry adaption, didn't realize you were too kewl for school. lol

    With Diana they seem to see a compassionate hero who embodies love and comes from an island of women trained in art, philosophy, war--DID SOMEONE SAY WAR? OH MY GOD GET A SWORD IN HER HAND AND PUT THAT ON A LUNCHBOX. CAN SHE BE BEHEADING SOMEONE? NO? SHE'S GOING ON KID'S UNDERWEAR TOO? AWW FU--

  4. #79
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    It sure is funny until it gets sad

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    The warrior element to her is definitely there but they always overcompensate to make her seem cool and it just feels like they're ashamed of Diana.

    It's like early in the first season of Arrow when they're all around a dinner table talking about the vigilante. Malcom Meryln suggests dubbing him "the green arrow" and it cuts to a deadpan Oliver Queen who says "lame" like every teen dismissing their parents.

    Oh. Sorry adaption, didn't realize you were too kewl for school. lol
    The show calls him Green Arrow in later seasons.

  6. #81
    Incredible Member Amazon Swordsman's Avatar
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    Can anyone point me to her best feats with shield and sword in recent memory? I would’ve tolerated the new origin more as well as this heightened emphasis of her “warrior nature” if her feats were as good, if not better than what came prior to the new 52.

  7. #82
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The show calls him Green Arrow in later seasons.
    Yeah, doesn't change that first season was very ashamed of the fact they couldn't do Batman.

  8. #83
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The show calls him Green Arrow in later seasons.
    I'm still kind of surprised they never brought up that Malcolm came up with the name and Oliver called it "dumb."
    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Yeah, doesn't change that first season was very ashamed of the fact they couldn't do Batman.
    One of the endings they conceived on for the series was Oliver actually inspiring Bruce Wayne to become Batman .
    Quote Originally Posted by Amazon Swordsman View Post
    Can anyone point me to her best feats with shield and sword in recent memory? I would’ve tolerated the new origin more as well as this heightened emphasis of her “warrior nature” if her feats were as good, if not better than what came prior to the new 52.
    I can't think of any. Like I said, she almost always end up tossing them aside during a fight.

  9. #84
    Astonishing Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Not entirely an anti-sword zealot but they could at least give it some in-universe importance like the various other iconography she's had. The bracelets and the lasso usually always have this but even the belt and tiara have been given that at various times. Make it at least little unique/less generic.

  10. #85
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    People have this obsession with Diana being willing to kill.
    Yeah, this topic attracts a lot of strange folks. Like I know this person who has a compulsive need to catalogue all of her gory kills.
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

    "You can't make an omelet without breaking a few necks." - Wonder Woman, probably

  11. #86
    Fantastic Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Yes it is. Making people tell the truth is the only thing that it is guaranteed to do. Most of the time, it just behaves like a really strong rope and even that isn't always the case since it has been broken or evaded several times.



    The bracelets cover only one part of her body and are useless if she can't see the attack coming or the opponent is smart and fast enough to shoot somewhere other than her upper torso.
    Not it isn't. And based on feats. The sword is evaded or countered just as much if not more than the lasso. And it doesn't have all the abilities that the lasso has.

    She has blocked and redirected attacks bigger than her whole body with her bracelets. And part of the point of the bracelets. Is to be used as a way to showcase her great super speed and skills. In a way that a shield can't. The bracelets are far more useful than the shield. And actual feats prove it.

    And the "WW has been overpowered at times" is just not going to work. Every character is overpowered at times. Yet i don't see you suggesting that they should give a sword to superman, supergirl, green lantern, flash, thor, hulk etc. WW is supposed to be a powerhouse that uses her own powers and skills first and foremost. A sword should not overshadow her own powers, getting more showing than her own powers like i have seen these past years is a big no for me.
    Last edited by mystical41; 01-17-2021 at 05:12 PM.

  12. #87
    Fantastic Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The only purpose the lasso serves in battle is snaring opponents which is what it mostly did in 1984. Most of its other unusual abilities get ignored or removed and it has been defeated several times. It is not the indestructible weapon you think it is.





    So you don't have an issue with her using weapons other than the lasso, you just hate the sword. And no, she doesn't just have everything she needs. Again, the lasso has been defeated before and smart fighters do not rely on just one weapon.


    I honestly don't know if you're trolling or just ignoring what I say. Her super strength is not 100% reliable. She has been physically overpowered multiple times and had to rely on other weapons in order to win. And this was happening before DC had her using a sword regularly. Which part of this is confusing you here?




    It's like talking to a wall here. Versatility in her skillset not versatility in her weapons.




    Diana is supposed to be the best fighter the Amazons have ever produced. If she can only use weapons similar in technique to a lasso, she is not that great a fighter.





    Diana is not against killing. If she uses a sword it is because other options have failed. If she is going to kill, a sword makes more sense than a lasso.

    This is not a difficult concept to grasp. Unless, your real issue here is that you have a problem with Diana killing at all. In which case, that genie's been out of the bottle since Perez.



    I have stated at least twice during this conversation that Diana should not discard the lasso entirely. The fact that the mere presence of the sword is this much of a controversy for anyone here is what makes even talking about it so damn frustrating.





    Again, this sounds more like your real issue is that you hate that Diana kills anyone at all. If she decides that lethal force is the only option left, then she absolutely does have intentions of killing. And a sword makes far more sense in that regard than a lasso.
    WW carrying a sword when she has been facing humans and super humans most of the time now doesn't make sense. She has the sword but no intention to kill any of those oponents. Giganta, Silver Swan, Cheetah, max lord, robbers, disturbed children, deathstroke, etc. All people she fought with a sword in hand, yet never meant to kill them at any time. All the sword did in those battles was getting in the way. If you are not going for the kill, a sword is not a good option at all. Her powers(holding back when she doesn't want to kill) and fighting skills(including pressure points that she is supposed to know), all that should be enough to put opponents down when she doesn't want to kill. Which is the case 99% of the time.
    Last edited by mystical41; 01-17-2021 at 05:14 PM.

  13. #88
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amazon Swordsman View Post
    Can anyone point me to her best feats with shield and sword in recent memory? I would’ve tolerated the new origin more as well as this heightened emphasis of her “warrior nature” if her feats were as good, if not better than what came prior to the new 52.
    I was never sure if Waid was being literal when he had WW say she could shave electrons off an atom, but then in New 52 she literally split an atom and KABOOM!

  14. #89
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    One of the endings they conceived on for the series was Oliver actually inspiring Bruce Wayne to become Batman .
    That may be the worst thing I've ever seen you post. Why must you say things you know will upset me?

  15. #90
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    I'd like to see Diana use her lasso more often in the way existing real martial arts use ropes, it could provide a lot of visual interest beyond simply using the lasso as a well, lasso. Japanese, Filipino, and Chinese martial arts all use ropes to entrap incoming punches or kicks, and in other ways that entangle limbs and tie people up. Sometimes against weapons. Imagine what someone like Diana could do with that skill set. And it has the advantage of being non-lethal unless you use it around the neck and intend to kill, which I don't see her doing.

    I also see her knowing something like hojojutsu, a Japanese art that involves restraining prisoners with ropes, and using them to help capture a wanted person, involving a deep knowledge of anatomy and leverage to restrain people.
    Last edited by achilles; 01-18-2021 at 06:25 AM.

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