Oh Jesus what are you talking about KillMonger wanted to be King to "Kill all the Opressors". Nikia whole point of the movie was to tell Tchalla how much Black people are suffering in the outside world and that they should break tradition and help. The whole Crux of the story is Killmonger. Hes a Black person who was stripped of his identity and heritage(African Americans cut off from this because of slavery). Oppressed and mistreated, then used by the US as a weapon. The movie is about identity. Killmonger like African American during and after slavery has no idea who he is because it was taken from him. Meanwhile Tchalla is black excellence, basically he's the balck Steve Roger's he's so perfect. And he knows exactly who he is. That's why his mom yelling out Show him who you are during the ceremonial fights is important.
Because this moment right here....one of the most iconic moments in Batman history....was turned into a joke.
that part of Killmonger's story is never explored in the film. His main story was to take the throne.
She told him only at the end, the movie did not show black people suffering, dealing with it, talking about divisibly, and looking for ways out. in fact the movie does the opposite.Nikia whole point of the movie was to tell Tchalla how much Black people are suffering in the outside world and that they should break tradition and help. The whole Crux of the story is Killmonger.
. The whole Crux of the story is Killmonger. Hes a Black person who was stripped of his identity and heritage(African Americans cut off from this because of slavery). Oppressed and mistreated, then used by the US as a weapon.
I think you are confusing the idea of what we know killmonger is, than what we saw in the movie. for instance mutants have been shown in multiple films getting mistreated, oppressed, ridiculed , experimented on by the government, what they say is the worst xmen movie, wolverine origins showed wolverine freeing mutants for been caged, ready to be turned into weapons by the government. I cannot recall any scene in black panther of such happening to killmomger.
This is not told in great detail in the movie. could be confusing Black Panther with Blackklansman on identity.The movie is about identity. Killmonger like African American during and after slavery has no idea who he is because it was taken from him. Meanwhile Tchalla is black excellence, basically he's the balck Steve Roger's he's so perfect. And he knows exactly who he is. That's why his mom yelling out Show him who you are during the ceremonial fights is important.
I have seen black panther 3-4 times, the main plot that takes over the film was a country that is super wealthy, killmonger comes back and challenges for the throne, he wins the throne for a while and than black panther takes it back. this is the main plot of the film with some hints that this is a black all star cast movie and some race issues are dropped subtly. it subtle, its not the main plot of the film.
Please I don't want to talk about black panther or xmen anymore or a dark knight rises thread, you can make a thread for black panther talking about how it is the best social- political message comic film but the advise is not to, because black panther will sink fast once other people start bringing up other comic films that sunk their claws deeper, they don't get called comic booky films anymore. Watchmen, V for Vendetta, X2 is not even the best xmen movie in this area, X-Men first class is. Let's not start on crime, policing, street -life, and corruption that is explored so richly in batman begins you almost forget you are watching what we know should be a superhero film as defined in 2021 not just for marvel but some DC too.
Last edited by Castle; 01-18-2021 at 04:50 PM.
How was he wasted though? Let's look at the film,
The movie sets up Rachel well in Batman Begins. Although she is waiting for Bruce in Batman Begins, Rachel seems to be moving on by TDK, the first act of TDK we see Harvey and Rachel in a committed stable relationship.
Harvey is a great lawyer that loves his job. Bruce is even jealous that Harvey can lock criminals up for good by doing things the normal way unlike him and his Bat-ness. it was well established, Harvey's life was great before Joker killed Rachel and drove him insane. Reason I only wish more that we got an actual Harvey-Rachel-Bruce triangle to flesh the story out.
But Judging from that I would not say two face was wasted, what i can say is, perhaps the transformation from harvey to two face came too fast. very fast but not wasted.
Last edited by Castle; 01-19-2021 at 03:58 AM.
Marvel has never done well with deeply sinking into social-political angles in movies. it's not just their fortay. black panther, civil war, iron man 3, winter solider, first avenger all of them still fall of the...let's still keep it very comic bookie trap that Disney sets for them in the end. Nolan at his worst is still above that. saying that is not an insult to anyone's intellect or misinterpreting a movie. in the contrary it makes you well informed not uninformed.
Here is one scene in dark knight rises a flawed movie that still manages to blow up everything fake about Gotham. from the fake Harvey Dent's legacy that he was a saint, to the corrupt police, to their bankrupt government and crooks. they are all almost as bad as the prisoners locked up and bane exposes that hypocrisy.
Did you see Gorden's face when Bane exposes him as a corrupt cop? Yes, he should resign.
Last edited by Castle; 01-18-2021 at 04:51 PM.
Last edited by green_garnish; 01-18-2021 at 04:54 PM.
Yes the Catwoman introduction scene got me hyped and in retrospect it is probably one of the best scenes in the movie. Thing is, I missed theatrical run of TDKR and actually watched it first time from a telly many years later. And I had completely forgot any spoilers and preview information there would have been and many twists in the movie took me genuinely by surprise. But still, everything just seemed to fall flat. Oh, it's Talia as a twist villain, doing exact same thing as her daddy did in first movie. Yay? The story didn't NEED somebody else pulling the strings of Bane. It came out as superfluous attempt to provide one more "omg!" moment but it didn't work because there was no setup and we didn't really care about Miranda. I think one problem was that it was known it was the last movie of the trilogy and Nolan wanted to put too much in it. See also discussion about X3.
I'm the kind of guy to whom movie is about just as good as its best scene. It's a slight exaggaration but I will forgive a LOT if the movie has cathartic kickass scenes. And TDKR didn't. I can't think of a single scene I would seek out from youtube and watch again. The movie is not actively awful or anything, but it's messy and emotionally flat.
The very fact that he doesn't get what Black panther about should either tell you he's lying to try to prove his point, he's lying about having actually watched it, or he is the world's least perceptive movie watcher ever.
Anyone of those is a reason to not take what he says in good faith.
While I agree to the extent that the story would have worked just fine if Bane was in charge, I've always liked the symmetry between Bruce and Talia in that film. After losing his father, Bruce dons a fictional identity, one built to inspire fear in those who do evil, to bring justice and hope to the city his father loved. After losing hers, Talia dons a fictional identity, one built to inspire false trust in those who do good, to bring despair and destruction to the city her father hated.
She's the final mirror for Bruce in that film. Selena, who recognizes the system is broken, but chooses only to act in her own self interest. Bane, whose physical prowess and will is bent not to protection and uplifting people but to dominance and destroying them. And Talia, who mirrors Bruce's motivations. Each representing one part of the Batman equation gone bad. There is a fourth mirror, in Blake, but he works differently, showing us a man with all of Bruce's best qualities and resolve but constrained, and ultimately undone, by dedication to the rules and hierarchies of the broken and corrupted system, which Bruce had previously rejected.
Bruce could have been any of them, if life had taken a different path. But only one of the five can actually inspire hope and bring some kind of justice.
If you are really thinking this, makes me wonder how you manage to understand movies. Or do you read notes during movies explaining them for you? And do you that only not with MCU movies. Because you seem not to understand what they are most about and try to hide that behind your MCU rants.
Last edited by lowfyr; 01-19-2021 at 12:16 AM.
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Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
(All-New Wolverine #4)
The audience in my cinema did not chuckle. some nodded their heads in agreement with bane. it was a great scene.
Yes with the hard evidence as I don't really like to lie to people. Additionally I am not biased.I do appreciate, though, that you provided some hard evidence of what fuels your cinematic biases,