Robin by Williamson and Melnikov Announced

[Drako]

Not to Naruto.

But Dick is not a father figure for Damian, they're brothers.

Well, Damian is not like Naruto at all, also.

This thread really took a turn.

[Agent Z]

Don't downplay Sakura's achievements in that battle. She did a great job aganist someone who killed a Kazekage and she saved Chiyo who wouldn't have lasted without her either.

I don't need to downplay Sakura's achievements. Kishimoto did that just fine by making it so that Sasori only lost to her and Chiyo because Sasori allowed them to win.

And many people call her pathetic because of Sasuke despite the fact that Naruto was far more pathetic over him (he literally had a panic attack over him. I mean, come on). Sakura's biggest problem that Kishi didn't give her much attention as Naruto and Sasuke especially after how great she was in the Gaara rescue arc where she actually improved more than Naruto in the time skip, not that she was "pathetic" or "incompetent".

People call Sakura pathetic because she does nothing but pine after Sasuke despite it being clear he cares nothing for her. Naruto actually had goals and development beyond Sasuke.

And I'm not saying that Sakura is a great character mind you, but I find it hilarious that people act like comparing Babs to Sakura is insult when the former is much older character than the latter and still has like two or three good stories (which can be said about many of DC female characters). I don't know about you, but I think this is far more pathetic than Kishi's misgivings with Sakura.

Barbara has far more than two or three good stories and even then it's irrelevant. Barbara could be the worst-written DC female character and it wouldn't change the fact that Sakura is a lousy character that even her own creator couldn't stand.

[Godlike13]

But Dick is not a father figure for Damian, they're brothers.

Well, Damian is not like Naruto at all, also.

This thread really took a turn.

Eeh, he’s a bit of both really. Like Iruka. Dick stepped in when Bruce died. These are not exact matches. But in a scenario where Damian is Naruto, Dick’s Iruka. The first person to step in and truly acknowledge him. His emotional support and anchor.

[Drako]

Eeh, he’s a bit of both really. Like Iruka. Dick stepped in when Bruce died. These are not exact matches. But in a scenario where Damian is Naruto, Dick’s Iruka. The first person to step in and truly acknowledge him. His emotional support and anchor.

Yeah, I get the analogy.

I just think Iruka sucks so much as a Ninja that making him Dick's "Naruto" contrapart is cruel.

[Rise]

I don't need to downplay Sakura's achievements. Kishimoto did that just fine by making it so that Sasori only lost to her and Chiyo because Sasori allowed them to win.



People call Sakura pathetic because she does nothing but pine after Sasuke despite it being clear he cares nothing for her. Naruto actually had goals and development beyond Sasuke.



Barbara has far more than two or three good stories and even then it's irrelevant. Barbara could be the worst-written DC female character and it wouldn't change the fact that Sakura is a lousy character that even her own creator couldn't stand.

I don't need to downplay Sakura's achievements. Kishimoto did that just fine by making it so that Sasori only lost to her and Chiyo because Sasori allowed them to win.



People call Sakura pathetic because she does nothing but pine after Sasuke despite it being clear he cares nothing for her. Naruto actually had goals and development beyond Sasuke.



Barbara has far more than two or three good stories and even then it's irrelevant. Barbara could be the worst-written DC female character and it wouldn't change the fact that Sakura is a lousy character that even her own creator couldn't stand.

Way to miss the point and symbolism of their battle. Sasori didn't let them win so much as he hesitated last minute to kill his grandma which to show the humanity he claimed he didn't have and was a good moment for his character, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a great moment and achievement for Sakura like you trying to pretend. The fact that she was able to create an antidote for a complicated posion in a short time and showed so much growth compared to Naruto was a great moment for her character which why it was absolute shame that he didn't do more with her.

And Sakura wasn't all about Sasuke and she was actually less foucsed on him than Naruto who was completely obsessed with him to a pathetic point and even linked his dream of becoming Hokage to him before Kishi realized that it was too much (he even admitted that he went too far) and decided to fix it. I don't deny though that Kishi should have done far more with her character.

And can you list these so called "good" stories? Babs has the advantage of being written by more than just one writer (after all, Sakura was really great in her novel when she wasn't written by Kishi) and still barely have memorable moments and good stories that can be counted in more than one hand. WW who is DC's most iconic female character and her list of good stories is completely pathetic compared to Batman and Superman despite being as old as them. Let's not throw rocks at others when our house is made of glass.

[Drako]

Way to miss the point and symbolism of their battle. Sasori didn't let them win so much as he hesitated last minute to kill his grandma which to show the humanity he claimed he didn't have and was a good moment for his character, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a great moment and achievement for Sakura like you trying to pretend. The fact that she was able to create an antidote for a complicated posion in a short time and showed so much growth compared to Naruto was a great moment for her character which why it was absolute shame that he didn't do more with her.

And Sakura wasn't all about Sasuke and she was actually less foucsed on him than Naruto who was completely obsessed with him to a pathetic point and even linked his dream of becoming Hokage to him before Kishi realized that it was too much (he even admitted that he went too far) and decided to fix it. I don't deny though that Kishi should have done far more with her character.

And can you list these so called "good" stories? Babs has the advantage of being written by more than just one writer (after all, Sakura was really great in her novel when she wasn't written by Kishi) and still barely have memorable moments and good stories that can be counted in more than one hand. WW who is DC's most iconic female character and her list of good stories is completely pathetic compared to Batman and Superman despite being as old as them. Let's not throw rocks at others when our house is made of glass.

Babs could have zero good stories and she would still be a more developed character than Sakura. I don't know how this is even a discussion.

Also, funny how most of the Kunoichis who fought on the war became housewives.

[Rise]

Babs could have zero good stories and she would still be a more developed character than Sakura. I don't know how this is even a discussion.

Also, funny how most of the Kunoichis who fought on the war became housewives.

Development and superheroe comics don't go with each others. Let's not kid ourselves here.

And funny that you think being a housewife is insult. Like being a working woman is the only way for a woman to have a value.

[Agent Z]

Way to miss the point and symbolism of their battle. Sasori didn't let them win so much as he hesitated last minute to kill his grandma which to show the humanity he claimed he didn't have and was a good moment for his character, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a great moment and achievement for Sakura like you trying to pretend. The fact that she was able to create an antidote for a complicated posion in a short time and showed so much growth compared to Naruto was a great moment for her character which why it was absolute shame that he didn't do more with her.

And Sakura wasn't all about Sasuke and she was actually less foucsed on him than Naruto who was completely obsessed with him to a pathetic point and even linked his dream of becoming Hokage to him before Kishi realized that it was too much (he even admitted that he went too far) and decided to fix it. I don't deny though that Kishi should have done far more with her character.

The difference is that Kishimoto did do more with Naruto while he didn't with Sakura. Her love for Sasuke was the only consistent character trait she had whereas Naruto had other things going for him from the beginning
even when his obsession with Sasuke started getting annoying.

And can you list these so called "good" stories?

Pretty much everything from Birds of Prey by Dixon and Simone, Batgirl of Burnside, The Oracle Code,

Babs has the advantage of being written by more than just one writer (after all, Sakura was really great in her novel when she wasn't written by Kishi) and still barely have memorable moments and good stories that can be counted in more than one hand. WW who is DC's most iconic female character and her list of good stories is completely pathetic compared to Batman and Superman despite being as old as them. Let's not throw rocks at others when our house is made of glass.

DC at least has shown interest in developing their female characters which is more than can be said for Naruto. If you actually think Wonder Woman's treatment is in the same league as Sakura, I've got some land on the moon to sell you. It is not in the league, not in the same ball park, it isn't even the same goddamn sport. Wonder Woman's list of good stories is nowhere near as short and the fact that the only good moment you can list for Sakura in the entirety of her history is one fight which she only survived because of back up and the villain letting her win shows what a waste of time she ultimately was. There is no comparison between a character whose own creator hated her and gave up trying to make her interesting vs two female characters that have been far more consistently written as intelligent, competent and layered.

Yeah DC isn't perfect, no one is claiming such. It doesn't mean others should be let off the hook when they are objectively worse.

Barbara Gordon and Wonder Woman were considered innovative in the era in which they debuted and were far more frequently shown as being just as capable as her male peers. Sakura, despite debuting in what is supposed to be a more progressive era, comes across like a less progressive female character that was created in the 1960s. Even if Barbara and Diana weren't written by multiple authors, they still would have been better characters than Sakura.

[Agent Z]

And funny that you think being a housewife is insult. Like being a working woman is the only way for a woman to have a value.

Maybe it would be seen as less insulting if the writing for female characters in Naruto wasn't so ass backwards.

[Drako]

Development and superheroe comics don't go with each others. Let's not kid ourselves here.

Aren't you a fan of Jason Todd?

And funny that you think being a housewife is insult. Like being a working woman is the only way for a woman to have a value.

Yeah, because that's what i said. /s

He made all of them to drop everything to be mothers at home while their husbands worked. All of them. Sakura, Hinata, Karui, Ino, Ten Ten and even Temari.

You would think the at least one of them could work with the shinobi, since, you know, they're all very powerfull.

If Sarada doesn't become the Hokage, we all know what her future will look like.

[Light of Justice]

Yeah, because that's what i said. /s

He made all of them to drop everything to be mothers at home while their husbands worked. All of them. Sakura, Hinata, Karui, Ino, Ten Ten and even Temari.

You would think the at least one of them could work with the shinobi, since, you know, they're all very powerfull.

If Sarada doesn't become the Hokage, we all know what her future will look like.

Oh my where to begin. Okay, Sakura is Director of Konoha Hospital. Ino has her flower shop. I have no idea why do you think Ten Ten is housewife because, first, on main Naruto epilogue it clearly shows that Ten Ten opened her own weapon shop, and second, she isn't married yet. Temari is housewife, except she often becomes connecter between Sunagakure and Konohagakure delegation. Hinata is indeed housewife, and probably has no job, since she was groomed to be Head Clan but the position falls to Hanabi (why the hell Hanabi didn't get Branch Family curse seal but Neji and his father got those?). No idea about Karui.

Guess we have to face that women on shounen/hero media are often, almost always, serve as the male main hero's trophy girl on most viewer's eyes. Like Flatline, brand new girl character from upcoming Robin comic (in case everyone forget what this thread is really about), I already see some people that think "will she become Damian's girlfriend?" On Rebirth, Steph reduces into Tim's girlfriend, like on Batman 1000 issue and Bendis's Young Justice. Some people can't talk about Babs without mentioning Dick. It really sucks.

[Drako]

Oh my where to begin. Okay, Sakura is Head of Konoha Hospital. Ino has her flower shop. I have no idea why do you think Ten Ten is housewife because, first, on main Naruto epilogue it clearly shows that Ten Ten opened her own weapon shop, and second, she isn't married yet. Temari is housewife, except she often becomes connecter between Sunagakure and Konohagakure delegation. Hinata is indeed housewife, and probably has no job. No idea about Karui.

Still nowhere near the potential they had in the show about ninjas. But all the men kept being shinobi and had jobs that revolves around that lifestyle.

[OopsIdiditagain]

Aren't you a fan of Jason Todd?



Yeah, because that's what i said. /s

He made all of them to drop everything to be mothers at home while their husbands worked. All of them. Sakura, Hinata, Karui, Ino, Ten Ten and even Temari.

That's not true.

Tenten isn't even married and runs a weapon shop. Sakura is more of a working mom than a housewife since Sasuke is never home(are they even married?) and she's in charge of Konoha's medical ninjas. Ino works at the Mental Health clinic she founded with Sakura. Temari and Karui are still kunoichis. Hinata... yeah you're right about her, but she was forced to train by her dad.

[Light of Justice]

Still nowhere near the potential they had in the show about ninjas. But all the men kept being shinobi and had jobs that revolves around that lifestyle.

Sakura is Director of Hospital who treated injured ninjas. She and Ino opened clinic to treat children's mental health after the War. Tenten is weapon seller for ninjas. Temari is the connecter between Konohagakure ninjas and Sunagakure ninjas, a task that requires someone strong enough to break conflict. Not revolves about ninja lifestyle enough? And is there any mention that they stop become shinobi? Sakura is still Jounin. Ino is still Chuunin. But now let's be real, if you had decent stable job on your own home and village, compared to become full-time shinobi who will go out from the village and run errands, away from family like Sasuke, risking your life in process, which one will you choose?

[OopsIdiditagain]

Still nowhere near the potential they had in the show about ninjas. But all the men kept being shinobi and had jobs that revolves around that lifestyle.

The men did not "keep being shinobi" their lives became more mundane too since the war ended and shinobi don't do much. The only person who consistently does dangerous work is Sasuke. Everyone else is just doing mundane slice of life jobs with a few fights here and there. Even Naruto mostly does paperwork, how different is that from owning a shop or being a doctor?