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Thread: Wandavision

  1. #2671
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Don't get me wrong. I really REALLY enjoyed the action sequences in Episode 9. I've always liked combat "in the skies". Lots of space to do battle you know? And Wanda's and Agatha's hand movements were great. So those were fun. I just feel that by having those scenes, people kind of forgot about what this show was all about: overcoming grief and depression. And the writers were doing a WANDAFUL job of doing it for eight whole episodes. I think people who were NEVER into superhero action adventure movies/shows were really engaged with Wanda's struggles with mental illness. I thought it was a bold move by the writers to keep the focus on that for so long. I also enjoyed the whole Ship of Theseus conversation. Philosophical debates and thought experiments DEFINITELY have a place in the superhero genre, and I'm glad they included it in this Episode. So the writers did a GREAT job there. My only disappointment was that a superhero genre show that managed to subvert expectations of what a superhero genre show should look like finally succumbed to classic superhero genre tropes. It was a fun ride with poignant thoughts on grief, but in the end, Marvel’s gonna Marvel. And I think that potentially antagonized people who enjoyed the show up until the last episode. And WandaVision was the PERFECT show to draw new fans into the MCU. I'm concerned with how Wanda will be perceived "in-universe" as opposed to people like us in these threads. I don't think she was evil, but she did some bad things in Westview and that made me sad. I'm suspicious about how Marvel Studios handles Wanda from here on out. Things could easily go badly for her. I just wish the show had at least one more hour to tell its story. I think it would have helped a lot.
    Last edited by Albert1981; 03-05-2021 at 07:50 PM.

  2. #2672
    Mighty Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harsh Lesson View Post
    So, we're all just supposed to go with her objectively wrong actions because she's experienced trauma? Couldn't any run of the mill villain make this same argument?
    Lol not to speak for them but Ferro pretty actively dislikes Wanda so I don’t they were making excuses for her. I agree that the MCU version is presenting a more interesting arc then 616’s House of M plot.

    Also you can enjoy the show or even sympathize with Wanda without condoning her actions.

  3. #2673
    Wanda & Ribrianne~4~Life! CJStriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I'd just like to say, for the record, that I'm a fan of Wanda and feel like she doesn't often get a fair shake, but here I think they could've done a better job with her story so we're not (once again) debating Wanda's morality for the umpteenth time.
    I think the mority what that it was unforseen that was to happen and the moral of this story is that With Your Power being great then you know you must also deal with all that, to deal with yourself in hard ways and learn from your mistakes even when they are not in your control.

    Wanda's Morality was to give up all she loved to set right the wrongs that happen, the it was to take herself away when she finally found out the pain the hex cause and to learn from it so she would not harm anyone again. That is a decent start beginning lesson and I felt that is what the writers where going for, even if like aways writing can be messy in how we understand and take it. It is us to as fans that take it to the in the weeds levels and we get what we get, but we should never dislike each other over it, this is just competing viewpoints we hope could oneday become a harmy of understanding.

    That is why leasons and mority in life is so complex base on our mortal conditions, their is never a full easy answer, just growning form it by becoming wiser.
    "By Earth and Sky, By Craft and Hex -- By The Past and The Future I Call HOPE Forth From The DARKNESS!
    I Speak The Words We Made Into MAGIC!
    Let THEIR Power Augment Our OWN! To Strike ONE BLOW From Our HEARTS and SOULS From ALL THAT WE ARE!
    Let The CALL Go Forth --
    AVENGERS! ASSEMBLE!"


    Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff ~~ From Avengers #689!

    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread 2021!

  4. #2674
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    Lol not to speak for them but Ferro pretty actively dislikes Wanda so I don’t they were making excuses for her. I agree that the MCU version is presenting a more interesting arc then 616’s House of M plot.

    Also you can enjoy the show or even sympathize with Wanda without condoning her actions.
    I agree. Her actions were questionable and harmful but she's not evil.

    I wonder how much of this they'll directly address in MoM

  5. #2675
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    So, as for today's episode....I'm satisfied. Maybe not blown away; I'm not glutted on tons of revelations that have provided new insights into the MCU and these characters, but I think the finale stands up pretty well and delivers on what was promised. Might not be everything I *wanted* it to be, but I think it's everything I *needed* it to be.

    Spoilers. Obviously. Because if you're reading this thread without watching the final episode, that's all on you.

    I feel like this wrapped things up with Wanda pretty well; there's enough sacrifice in her actions to help dampen, but not erase, the sins she's committed. She's left as an outsider, likely a wanted felon (again) and that's fitting on several levels, but she doesn't appear to be stepping completely over the line into "villain" territory like some of us feared (but is still scary enough for her to retain an edge). She got to say goodbye to Vision properly, and that felt like quality closure. That closure means her character journey is now cleared to start a new phase, one far removed from where she started out, and it feels like a really big, exciting shift...almost as big a shift as what Thor went through with Ragnarok, only this works better because it's getting MCU Wanda closer to her comics roots and not burying all the emotional resonance under a mountain of jokes. She's got her costume and code name, and a new goal that'll (I assume) lead her into Strange 2. I'm left hoping that Olsen has signed up for at least a few more appearances, because it'd be a damn shame if Strange 2 is the last time we get to see this "new" Wanda.

    I am extremely happy with Vision's ending. It was everything I wanted it to be and I cannot wait to see where he'll show up again. His battle against himself, and the resolution to that, was fantastic. I only wish white Vision hadn't simply vanished, I'd like to have known if this "new" Vision retains any emotions, or emotional attachment, to go along with his reactivated memories, and what he plans to do next. Given that he just took off (and given the source material) I assume he doesn't have any emotional connection to Wanda, even if he now remembers having one...but it would've been nice to see him interact with Wanda. Like with Olsen, I'm hoping Bettany has several appearances left in his contract because I'm now pretty invested in seeing how his story unfolds.

    Monica got the setup I was hoping for; powers activated, aimed towards Captain Marvel 2.....I didn't expect this show to do much with Monica beyond just introducing her, but I think the actress sold herself in the role and I look forward to seeing her return and seeing how she'll fit into the larger MCU narrative.

    Fietro.....well, that was a big disappointment. Props to the showrunners for throwing us all for a loop with this red herring I guess, but I think it was a foul ball; with all the talk about the multiverse going on, using the Fox actor for what ended up being a total nobody seems out of bounds. And it was never explained why Wanda accepted this guy as her Pietro, despite him not looking or sounding anything like him.

    Not sure how I feel about the resolution with the kids, even if I guessed right on it. Seems like Marvel isn't done with Billy and Tommy, which isn't a surprise since Young Avengers/Champions is being set up, but I feel like things with these two kids could get really damn convoluted really damn quick and it'd probably have just been cleaner and easier to have them somehow survive the Hex closing.

    Agnes had a quality ending, I thought, with potential for future appearances. And, in a way, we did get her into that mentor role we were all waiting for her to assume. We didn't get it the way we thought we would, but Agatha has proven such a delightful villain I'm just glad she didn't end up being another one-and-done bad guy. Maybe she'll never be seen again, but she *could* be and that's good enough for now.

    I wish we had gotten some more time with Woo and Darcy, but odds are Woo will return in Ant-Man 3 anyway. Darcy....well, whatever; I'm not against her taking up the role of "science support" and I do enjoy the character, but it won't bother me if she's not seen again either.

    I do wish we had gotten some closure on a few of those loose threads; who was Woo's contact in witness protection? Who was Monica's engineer? What was up with the "for the children" chant? Some of those things were just red herrings designed to seem more important than they really were, but some of them really feel like dropped threads. And it would've been nice if Vision had been given a chance to say goodbye to the neighbors; he did spend a fair chunk of screen time with those guys, and in a way they were all victims of Wanda's trauma, so a final scene with them would've been cool.

    Yeah. I'm satisfied. I think the show mostly stuck the landing.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  6. #2676
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    In retrospective... wanda as the harbringer of chaos has been a thing since her introduction even if not intentional she has been at the center of great destruction/change.

    leading tony to creat ultron with her visions (those were just chaotic)
    unleashing the hulk on civilians.
    Lagos wich split the avengers.
    leaving vision unprotected so it wasnt possible to remove the stone.
    now this

  7. #2677
    Wanda & Ribrianne~4~Life! CJStriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    Lol not to speak for them but Ferro pretty actively dislikes Wanda so I don’t they were making excuses for her. I agree that the MCU version is presenting a more interesting arc then 616’s House of M plot.

    Also you can enjoy the show or even sympathize with Wanda without condoning her actions.
    I never thought it as much condoning actions as it is understanding how they happen in the 1st place. When the charcters realize the truth that is when the ideals to the charcter is shown, that is how the character grows after the unforseen storm happens, how they deal and grow with it going forward.
    "By Earth and Sky, By Craft and Hex -- By The Past and The Future I Call HOPE Forth From The DARKNESS!
    I Speak The Words We Made Into MAGIC!
    Let THEIR Power Augment Our OWN! To Strike ONE BLOW From Our HEARTS and SOULS From ALL THAT WE ARE!
    Let The CALL Go Forth --
    AVENGERS! ASSEMBLE!"


    Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff ~~ From Avengers #689!

    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread 2021!

  8. #2678
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harsh Lesson View Post
    So, we're all just supposed to go with her objectively wrong actions because she's experienced trauma? Couldn't any run of the mill villain make this same argument?
    not what im saying, she shouldnt be free of consequences but it makes her way more interesting to watch than comic wanda ever is,I can very much apreciate a tragic hero that struggles with her powers/goes on a darker path with clear consequences, not what the comics have tried to give 616 wanda every possible excuse under the book.

    mcu wandas certaintly flawed, the narrative doesn't excuse it and she's an active participan and main characther in her own story, while 616 wanda goes from plot device to a holy saint proeced by editorial hand of god when the x-men show up angry.
    Last edited by Ferro; 03-05-2021 at 07:58 PM.

  9. #2679
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    I think the mority what that it was unforseen that was to happen and the moral of this story is that With Your Power being great then you know you must also deal with all that, to deal with yourself in hard ways and learn from your mistakes even when they are not in your control.

    Wanda's Morality was to give up all she loved to set right the wrongs that happen, the it was to take herself away when she finally found out the pain the hex cause and to learn from it so she would not harm anyone again. That is a decent start beginning lesson and I felt that is what the writers where going for, even if like aways writing can be messy in how we understand and take it. It is us to as fans that take it to the in the weeds levels and we get what we get, but we should never dislike each other over it, this is just competing viewpoints we hope could oneday become a harmy of understanding.

    That is why leasons and mority in life is so complex base on our mortal conditions, their is never a full easy answer, just growning form it by becoming wiser.
    I agree with a lot of your comments. And I did think the writers and producers did a great job of telling Wanda's story in detail. But I wish they could have utilized Agatha in a different manner. People who criticize the MCU for having no stakes and/or consequences in its movies and shows have been given lots of ammo by how this show was concluded, unfortunately. I think the showrunners would have done things differently if they didn't have to work under the constraints of a shared cinematic universe.

  10. #2680
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harsh Lesson View Post
    So, we're all just supposed to go with her objectively wrong actions because she's experienced trauma?
    She's experienced repeated, great, and severe trauma...in some cases at the hands of the US government and US government-allies. She's tried to reform, she's even been heroic and helped people, and still nothing changed.

    Couldn't any run of the mill villain make this same argument?
    No run of the mill villain with Wanda's power and abilities would create a fantasy where she enacts suburban home from sitcoms. Agatha is there to remind everyone what a real bad guy with Wanda's powers would have done. Wanda has power to take over US government, or make a killing at the stock market or so on. That's what run of the mill villains would do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    But she eventually realized she was in control of this sitcom reality with real people. She was just utterly oblivious to how bad it was for them within the Hex even when other people brought it up. Agatha was the only one who forced her to face up to it.
    And when she did, she reversed and changed it, even at the cost of what she loved most.

    Emotional trauma isn't always easy to recover from.
    Heh, if and when they tie Westview to some villain's origin story, we can talk about it then.

    Not necessarily during emotional stress as we saw in the initial episodes. Her reaction to expanding the Hex was a comedic "self-help quarantine" day as "punishment."
    She's obviously having a breakdown, worried about alienating Vision and ruining her marriage, and is distressed. It's played comedically like how sitcoms often play such emotional moments as comedic when they are in fact quite serious.

    But the FF are coming very late into the Superhero game of the MCU than they usually do within any setting, so obviously there's going to have be concessions to accommodate the world of this adaption.
    Feige's not gonna lose sleep over that.

    "Organic natural evolution" that can do stuff like what happened in Westview on possibly an even grander scale. It would just confirm the government's worst fears about the superpowered and what they're capable of.
    It doesn't really matter either way.

    The MCU is ultimately about punching people.

  11. #2681
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    leading tony to creat ultron with her visions
    Tony was already planning on making Ultron, even the name well before that. All Wanda's vision did was confirm stuff he was already in the process of doing or going about it. She didn't change his mind or make him do anything he wasn't capable of doing by himself. All she did was prove that Tony Stark is incapable of telling the difference between saving the world and destroying it.

    unleashing the hulk on civilians.
    That one is on her, not gonna lie.

    Lagos wich split the avengers.
    The Lagos situation happened because Cap got distracted by Brock who unleashed a grenade that would have killed Cap and others and she had to reroute it very quickly away. It was an accident but done to protect her commander, and Cap takes full responsibility for that, and for letting Crossbones distract him that way.

    leaving vision unprotected so it wasnt possible to remove the stone.
    She left Vision unprotected to go out and save Natasha and Okoye, and others fighting an invasion. Would you rather she left them to die?

    In either case it didn't matter. Her abandoning Vision wouldn't have stopped Thanos. What would have stopped Thanos was Starlord keeping his chill and Thor going for the head.

  12. #2682
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    also wanda's never becoming a mutant again thanks to this show, so its a 10 out of 10 for me in "giving ferro long lasting joy <3"

    I wish her hair was brown because she looks like the scarlet shakira at some angles

  13. #2683
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Tony was already planning on making Ultron, even the name well before that. All Wanda's vision did was confirm stuff he was already in the process of doing or going about it. She didn't change his mind or make him do anything he wasn't capable of doing by himself. All she did was prove that Tony Stark is incapable of telling the difference between saving the world and destroying it.



    That one is on her, not gonna lie.



    The Lagos situation happened because Cap got distracted by Brock who unleashed a grenade that would have killed Cap and others and she had to reroute it very quickly away. It was an accident but done to protect her commander, and Cap takes full responsibility for that, and for letting Crossbones distract him that way.



    She left Vision unprotected to go out and save Natasha and Okoye, and others fighting an invasion. Would you rather she left them to die?

    In either case it didn't matter. Her abandoning Vision wouldn't have stopped Thanos. What would have stopped Thanos was Starlord keeping his chill and Thor going for the head.
    i wasnt saying shes making a conscious decision, im saying she has been related/at the center of so many chaotic moments, wich now that we know she's a part of a prophecy makes her previous actions/consequences more suspicious

  14. #2684
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    i wasnt saying shes making a conscious decision, im saying she has been related/at the center of so many chaotic moments
    Look 616 Wanda is nigh-irrecoverable barring severe retcons (I am talking Hal Jordan possessed by Fear Bug retcon) but we don't have to take it out on MCU Scarlet Witch.

    And in the MCU so many others are at the center of chaotic moments.

  15. #2685
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Look 616 Wanda is nigh-irrecoverable barring severe retcons (I am talking Hal Jordan possessed by Fear Bug retcon) but we don't have to take it out on MCU Scarlet Witch.

    And in the MCU so many others are at the center of chaotic moments.
    yeah but none of them are in an ancient book with a prophecy calling her the harbringer of chaos, it retroactivly makes me look at her past in the mcu, she has brought so much chaos or at the very least is always finding herself on those situations.
    What if its because of who she was meant to be?

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