Wandavision

[GenericUsername]

I would rather there be some accountability in the live-action stuff. They even talked about it a lot with the whole Sokovia Accords thing. There are no consequences and stakes in the comic books. But for the shows and movies, I think it could be a good place where themes of responsibility can SOMEWHAT be explored with a little bit more depth.

Well again, like I said, that's punishment you can do to some characters but not others. And like I mentioned, they've failed many times with Loki.

The authorities in comics things are also either corrupt or general screw ups. I wouldn't want them handling my household security system.

[GenericUsername]

Agreed. Live action progresses, so realistic consequences need to be taken into account.

I disagree on the point that real life is not a possible translation for most of comics. It's fantasy. With super powers, gods, vampires, werewolves, etc. You can't simply put them on trial and imprison them. And some of them you can't kill. There is a suspension of disbelief that has always had to be to get comics. Because it doesn't deal in the real world on a 1:1 translation. It takes some things from the real world and puts it in it's fantasy setting.

[CosmiComic]

I disagree on the point that real life is not a possible translation for most of comics. It's fantasy. With super powers, gods, vampires, werewolves, etc. You can't simply put them on trial and arrest them. And some of them you can't kill. There is a suspension of disbelief that has always had to be to get comics. Because it doesn't deal in the real world on a 1:1 translation. It takes some things from the real world and puts it in it's fantasy setting.

I get there's a suspension of disbelief but how can you call them heroes when they can do whatever they want? It could come off as putting them above everyone else, which seems antithetical to their supposed purpose

[GenericUsername]

I get there's a suspension of disbelief but how can you call them heroes when they can do whatever they want? It could come off as putting them above everyone else, which seems antithetical to their supposed purpose

The marvel citizens might consider some of them heroic but some are suspicious of them. They are mostly treated as necessary to take out bigger threats. Heroes is complicated, and completely dependent on the character. They do heroic things and intend to do good and a lot of times that's enough to consider them heroes. But they were never meant to be perfect. Ever. That's never been a thing Marvel strived for.

[Bruce Wayne]

I would rather there be some accountability in the live-action stuff. They even talked about it a lot with the whole Sokovia Accords thing. There are no consequences and stakes in the comic books. But for the shows and movies, I think it could be a good place where themes of responsibility can SOMEWHAT be explored with a little bit more depth.

The problem is imo the movies treat the Sokovia Accords like Marvel Comics did for SHRA as basically a strawman for big government overreach.

[Albert1981]

Well again, like I said, that's punishment you can do to some characters but not others. And like I mentioned, they've failed many times with Loki.

The authorities in comics things are also either corrupt or general screw ups. I wouldn't want them handling my household security system.

Marvel gave Loki an "out" in Infinity War. He was "mind-controlled" in that first Avengers movie:

https://screenrant.com/avengers-loki...-stone-thanos/

https://screenrant.com/avengers-loki...tone-thanos/2/

To me, I never considered Loki a "hero". I really like Hiddleston's portrayal, but I wasn't happy that he got his own show not just because of the various war crimes he committed, but I felt it cheapened his death in Infinity War (and destroyed almost all of his character progression since that first Thor movie). Disney has developed a really annoying habit of "killing" characters like Loki, Gamora and Vision (who I all like) and then through various methods bringing them back and starting their character arcs from the very beginning again. I hope they stop doing this after these three characters "retire".

[Albert1981]

The problem is imo the movies treat the Sokovia Accords like Marvel Comics did for SHRA as basically a strawman for big government overreach.

Then I don't think the movies should have ever introduced these concepts into their films. Not if they didn't intend to follow-up on them in a serious way. But I agree with you, it is a problem.

[CosmiComic]

Marvel gave Loki an "out" in Infinity War. He was "mind-controlled" in that first Avengers movie:

https://screenrant.com/avengers-loki...-stone-thanos/

https://screenrant.com/avengers-loki...tone-thanos/2/

To me, I never considered Loki a "hero". I really like Hiddleston's portrayal, but I wasn't happy that he got his own show not just because of the various war crimes he committed, but I felt it cheapened his death in Infinity War (and destroyed almost all of his character progression since that first Thor movie). Disney has developed a really annoying habit of "killing" characters like Loki, Gamora and Vision (who I all like) and then through various methods bringing them back and starting their character arcs from the very beginning again. I hope they stop doing this after these three characters "retire".

Well, they didn't really use some of those characters well so I have no problem with them bringing them back. Maybe the MCU shouldn't kill people off too quickly in the first place.

As for Loki, I agree he's too villainous to be a hero. I hope this show doesn't pretend he's a hero

[CosmiComic]

Then I don't think the movies should have ever introduced these concepts into their films. Not if they didn't intend to follow-up on them in a serious way. But I agree with you, it is a problem.

I agree. The Sokovia Accords were unnecessary

[Albert1981]

Well, they didn't really use some of those characters well so I have no problem with them bringing them back. Maybe the MCU shouldn't kill people off too quickly in the first place.

As for Loki, I agree he's too villainous to be a hero. I hope this show doesn't pretend he's a hero

I agree with you completely. If Marvel Studios hadn't used them properly, why kill them off so prematurely? I just don't know why Marvel was so bloodthirsty when it came to killing off heroes AND villains in those first three phases. I'm glad the body count in WandaVision was pretty low, however. Feel bad for Sparky though.

[GenericUsername]

Marvel gave Loki an "out" in Infinity War. He was "mind-controlled" in that first Avengers movie:

https://screenrant.com/avengers-loki...-stone-thanos/

https://screenrant.com/avengers-loki...tone-thanos/2/

To me, I never considered Loki a "hero". I really like Hiddleston's portrayal, but I wasn't happy that he got his own show not just because of the various war crimes he committed, but I felt it cheapened his death in Infinity War (and destroyed almost all of his character progression since that first Thor movie). Disney has developed a really annoying habit of "killing" characters like Loki, Gamora and Vision (who I all like) and then through various methods bringing them back and starting their character arcs from the very beginning again. I hope they stop doing this after these three characters "retire".

First movie sure. But not Thor 2 for sure. Where he was imprisoned by his own family and still made it out. Not only that but got his own mother murdered. Now a version of him is still roaming around free from imprisonment.

Also, Loki is one I'll accept having different versions since that is sort of his thing. He comes back, has a kid version, teen and other versions. This is just his other universe version from where the stones were taken.

[CJStriker]

I agree with you completely. If Marvel Studios hadn't used them properly, why kill them off so prematurely? I just don't know why Marvel was so bloodthirsty when it came to killing off heroes AND villains in those first three phases. I'm glad the body count in WandaVision was pretty low, however. Feel bad for Sparky though.

Honestly besides the dog;

Their was a net body count of people homes coming Too Life! You had Vision rebuilt so he is back in some form, the Vision that was on Westview is likely in Wanda’s mind and hearts so I count that as even, but Wanda’s kids are likely to be coming back now with what is being teased with DS2 and stuff for Young Avengers so WandaVision added more life then took when you think about it.

[GenericUsername]

Honestly besides the dog;

Their was a net body count of people homes coming Too Life! You had Vision rebuilt so he is back in some form, the Vision that was on Westview is likely in Wanda’s mind and hearts so I count that as even, but Wanda’s kids are likely to be coming back now with what is being teased with DS2 and stuff for Young Avengers so WandaVision added more life then took when you think about it.

Wanda didn't take any lives. People just treat her like she did.

[CosmiComic]

I agree with you completely. If Marvel Studios hadn't used them properly, why kill them off so prematurely? I just don't know why Marvel was so bloodthirsty when it came to killing off heroes AND villains in those first three phases. I'm glad the body count in WandaVision was pretty low, however. Feel bad for Sparky though.

Exactly. Killing heroes off too quickly isn't "stakes". It's shortsighted. Would we get "I am Iron Man" in Endgame had he died earlier?

[Albert1981]

Well, they didn't really use some of those characters well so I have no problem with them bringing them back. Maybe the MCU shouldn't kill people off too quickly in the first place.

As for Loki, I agree he's too villainous to be a hero. I hope this show doesn't pretend he's a hero

I was enthused about Loki's TEMPORARILY after seeing that trailer of his in December SOLELY because I love the story of D.B. Cooper. But now, after several months passing by, I just wish they retired the character. Villains should never be celebrated (unless they're D.B. Cooper).