Wandavision

[CJStriker]

I’m going to try to channel that kind of optimism and hope things settle down in the weeks after the finale. Or that it dies down around Falcon and the Winter Soldier without losing fan interest and enthusiasm. I don’t want Star Wars level of toxic to take Wanda down just as she’s finally beginning to rise again.

What I think has been the really shining diamond in all of the glory of the show and since Endgame is that Wanda’s character has been rising above any debates like those, she is being major and more embracing by the fandoms that watch the MCU and the general public, it is honestly a phenomenon that I never expected to happen but after Endgame it began.

I think it is cause fans got time to know and grow with her and as they grew with her so did those that learned More about her from the comics lore. This has all mixed into a perfect storm that has come together as a character that fans grew to become attached to both for her powers and the likable charm she has thanks to Miss Olsen both in and off screen.

We have seen this especially after episode 8 when Wanda’s struggles torn at everyone’s hearts and what she has gone threw and her journey to this point and the image of the Scarlet Witch from the mind stone has come to destiny coming for her time.

Fans got a chance to chew the time with Wanda and whatever none cameos happen, it is the internet and fan embracing of her that has truly impressed me and shows this is an engraving of her more then anything else out of this in the views mind and embrace!

[Sutekh]

I love that I'm over at Marvel.fandom.wiki looking up an X-peep for something and the sidebar says;

Popular pages
1) Wanda Maximoff (Earth-616)
2) Agatha Harkness (Earth-616)
3) Glossary: Chaos Magic
4) Vision (Earth-616)
5) Monica Rambeau (Earth-616)

[CosmiComic]

What I think has been the really shining diamond in all of the glory of the show and since Endgame is that Wanda’s character has been rising above any debates like those, she is being major and more embracing by the fandoms that watch the MCU and the general public, it is honestly a phenomenon that I never expected to happen but after Endgame it began.

I think it is cause fans got time to know and grow with her and as they grew with her so did those that learned More about her from the comics lore. This has all mixed into a perfect storm that has come together as a character that fans grew to become attached to both for her powers and the likable charm she has thanks to Miss Olsen both in and off screen.

We have seen this especially after episode 8 when Wanda’s struggles torn at everyone’s hearts and what she has gone threw and her journey to this point and the image of the Scarlet Witch from the mind stone has come to destiny coming for her time.

Fans got a chance to chew the time with Wanda and whatever none cameos happen, it is the internet and fan embracing of her that has truly impressed me and shows this is an engraving of her more then anything else out of this in the views mind and embrace!

I hope this means they'll do plenty more with her after MoM

[Albert1981]

I wouldn't even buy Nightmare stocks. He never had anything to do with chaos magic. And there might not be a bigger villain present yet. Chaos magic is linked to Chthon and even he might not be present. It could be just that the pages of the Darkhold were read by Agatha. Also, no one seems to have created this pocket existence other than Wanda's own powers in her moment of grief. So it's not a world she's been put into by someone like Nightmare. The villain could likely just be grief and ptsd.

But I think they'll need something to connect WandaVision to Doctor Strange. I don't Fietro is an important enough connection. Or even the twins. A big baddie would do the job on that front. I'm not sure they'll go with the Chthon route. Dude makes Agatha and the Ancient One look like spring chickens. I don't Marvel's gonna spend money (outside of the Eternals) on showing primordial worlds. I think it's still POSSIBLE for Nightmare to make an appearance, but the chances of that are increasingly faltering. But he's a hell of a lot more likely to be involved in WandaVision and Strange 2 than Mephisto or Magneto is.

[CosmiComic]

But I think they'll need something to connect WandaVision to Doctor Strange. I don't Fietro is an important enough connection. Or even the twins. A big baddie would do the job on that front. I'm not sure they'll go with the Chthon route. Dude makes Agatha and the Ancient One look like spring chickens. I don't Marvel's gonna spend money (outside of the Eternals) on showing primordial worlds. I'm now more determined than ever to buy more Nightmare stocks!

I assumed the connection is Wanda herself. I could be wrong.

[Albert1981]

It has taken all my will power not to set aside my homework to disabuse those kind of fan and their insistence on Wanda as some multiverse Madonna that will be the handmaid to mutant ascendancy. I swear, some of them sound like they’re debating religious parables or divining lines of Nostradamus, with as much familiarity and comprehension with each set of text, which is to say little to none. Worse, it seems to have inflamed the rivalry between the MCU and Fox fans, the X-Men vs Avengers rivalry, the gatekeepers vs the locals, and the Reddit vs 4chan rivalry. They’re all taking what should be a good and exciting time to wage a cold war against each other.

I’m becoming concerned that no matter how this show ends, it won’t please anybody because society as a whole has mainstreamed toxic fandom behaviors.

No, I think it would be absolutely appropriate to shut those folks down and put them in their place. Those "nerds" definitely speak with an authority that's totally undeserved. It does feel like they're reading from stone tablets or something, and it's annoying. They're in the dark about this show as practically everybody else is and they know it too. More toxic rivalries from the comic books should not be duplicated for the movies and shows. I do think Disney opened this Pandora's Box by recasting the Fox Quicksilver. If they had stuck with ATJ, mutants would be less of a talking point in my opinion. To me, the most interesting thing about WandaVision is the discourse SURROUNDING it. I have NEVER seen so much speculation and discussion about a TV show before. NEVER. And although the series has been REALLY well-received, those debates have been pretty divisive and polarizing. Currently on social media, people are battling over whether WandaVision is legitimate prestige TV or not. Marvel haters in particular disliked some of the dialogue that was used in Episode 8, and thought that the show was being pretentious by attempting to be "profound." Others hate the sitcom format, the complete lack of action and the fact that "nothing is happening" in this series. I'm wondering how the series concludes will color peoples' perception of WandaVision because there's definitely gonna be some disappointment amongst some fans whose theories will have been proven to be incorrect.

[Albert1981]

I assumed the connection is Wanda herself. I could be wrong.

But if the Multiverse of Madness is Doctor Strange's story, I think something from WandaVision besides Wanda will connect the two properties together. I do think there are malevolent forces at play in Westview that don't have anything to do with Wanda and/or Agatha. I just hope Wanda "fixes" what she did in Westview and doesn't have Doctor Strange do it for her.

[Journey]

I feel this tiktok perfectly states the issues people are having with this show this lady makes perfect sense. BtW ignore the twitter handle that dude is bold lol

https://twitter.com/i/status/1365505161527967744

[Albert1981]

I feel this tiktok perfectly states the issues people are having with this show this lady makes perfect sense. BtW ignore the twitter handle that dude is bold lol

https://twitter.com/i/status/1365505161527967744

LOL! That name is certainly original. I have no problem with the theorizing and speculation. That's what's making this show so much fun to watch. It's only when folks starting saying that it "sucked" because their theories were way off base, then things get ridiculous. But I'm not gonna lie, I LOVE watching arrogant nerds and geeks get proven wrong time and time again.

[Albert1981]

I do think some people tend to overanalyze what they’re watching and start including all this complex comic book material in a show that clearly won’t contain even half of it. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if we had already gotten all the information we need and the finale will focus less on new twists or reveals and more on resolving the existing plot lines. I expect the Hex will be shut down and everyone freed but the “Westview Incident” will have serious consequences; SWORD will get its ass handed to it and Monica will take over as Director and change the acronym’s meaning; Wanda will have accepted Vision’s death but she’ll lose the twins somehow; and Doctor Strange will show up and tell her he’ll help get her children back if she comes with him.

So anyone expecting Evan Peters to turn around and wink at the camera before saying he’s going to update Xavier on what’s going on, or anyone expecting exposition around the book in Agatha’s basement or anyone expecting that Nightmare or Mephisto will show up at the eleventh hour like a JRPG final boss will very likely be disappointed when none of it happens. The show is still very much about Wanda’s pain and how she needs to confront it, rather than run from it.

I do think you can make the argument that Wanda has been more "evil" than Agatha in WandaVision. Should we consider Wanda evil for holding hundreds of families hostage as pawns in a scheme for personal comfort? Assaulting Monica? Threatening to murder Hayward? Or can we except that people who aren’t evil can do bad things? It’s kinda important to accept that if you vote Wanda as the protagonist.

The only thing Agatha has done that Monica hasn’t done on a more extreme basis is kill a (possibly fake) dog - to see if Wanda would revive it. Then again, Wanda is also kind of in the middle of a PTSD and depression-induced psychotic break while I'm pretty sure Agatha is fully in control of herself, so I might just be contradicting myself AGAIN.

The reason why I'm reluctant to call Agatha a villain is because of what somebody posted elsewhere: "Rather than look at what we have been told, look at what we haven't. Agatha practices the "darkest of magics", but all she was doing was begging for her mother to teach her how to use it. She seemed to possess little to no control over it, but we know from her mother that she sought out knowledge above her "station" which makes her hungry for knowledge. So Agatha was clearly telling the truth when she said she originally just wanted to know how Wanda was pulling off the Hex. She assumed it was a deeply complex web of multiple spells all interwoven with each other, but upon seeing Wanda's past she realized the truth - that Wanda was using Chaos Magic, another "darkest of magics", with no apparent control over its effect. If Agatha was evil, if she had any original intentions beyond merely satisfying her curiosity, then surely she would've done worse by now than just kill a dog that probably isn't even real? She's the antagonist insofar as she's apparently trying to get Wanda to face a truth she doesn't want to accept so that she'll shut down the Hex, but a villain? I don't think so."

[CosmiComic]

But if the Multiverse of Madness is Doctor Strange's story, I think something from WandaVision besides Wanda will connect the two properties together. I do think there are malevolent forces at play in Westview that don't have anything to do with Wanda and/or Agatha. I just hope Wanda "fixes" what she did in Westview and doesn't have Doctor Strange do it for her.

That's true.

[CosmiComic]

No, I think it would be absolutely appropriate to shut those folks down and put them in their place. Those "nerds" definitely speak with an authority that's totally undeserved. It does feel like they're reading from stone tablets or something, and it's annoying. They're in the dark about this show as practically everybody else is and they know it too. More toxic rivalries from the comic books should not be duplicated for the movies and shows. I do think Disney opened this Pandora's Box by recasting the Fox Quicksilver. If they had stuck with ATJ, mutants would be less of a talking point in my opinion. To me, the most interesting thing about WandaVision is the discourse SURROUNDING it. I have NEVER seen so much speculation and discussion about a TV show before. NEVER. And although the series has been REALLY well-received, those debates have been pretty divisive and polarizing. Currently on social media, people are battling over whether WandaVision is legitimate prestige TV or not. Marvel haters in particular disliked some of the dialogue that was used in Episode 8, and thought that the show was being pretentious by attempting to be "profound." Others hate the sitcom format, the complete lack of action and the fact that "nothing is happening" in this series. I'm wondering how the series concludes will color peoples' perception of WandaVision because there's definitely gonna be some disappointment amongst some fans whose theories will have been proven to be incorrect.

Honestly, what does prestige tv even mean anymore?

I can understand why people could be put off by the sitcom format. They replicated the old sets to such a degree the corniness has turned to cringe, but I assumed that's part of the creepiness factor. I myself don't care for most of the shows they're referencing before 2000 (I watched Malcom and Modern family when they were on), but I though the whole thing is here to disturb us.

I hope this has nothing to do with mutants. Scarlet Witch, Vision and Quicksilver all deserve their own stories.

[CosmiComic]

I do think some people tend to overanalyze what they’re watching and start including all this complex comic book material in a show that clearly won’t contain even half of it. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if we had already gotten all the information we need and the finale will focus less on new twists or reveals and more on resolving the existing plot lines. I expect the Hex will be shut down and everyone freed but the “Westview Incident” will have serious consequences; SWORD will get its ass handed to it and Monica will take over as Director and change the acronym’s meaning; Wanda will have accepted Vision’s death but she’ll lose the twins somehow; and Doctor Strange will show up and tell her he’ll help get her children back if she comes with him.

So anyone expecting Evan Peters to turn around and wink at the camera before saying he’s going to update Xavier on what’s going on, or anyone expecting exposition around the book in Agatha’s basement or anyone expecting that Nightmare or Mephisto will show up at the eleventh hour like a JRPG final boss will very likely be disappointed when none of it happens. The show is still very much about Wanda’s pain and how she needs to confront it, rather than run from it.

I do think you can make the argument that Wanda has been more "evil" than Agatha in WandaVision. Should we consider Wanda evil for holding hundreds of families hostage as pawns in a scheme for personal comfort? Assaulting Monica? Threatening to murder Hayward? Or can we except that people who aren’t evil can do bad things? It’s kinda important to accept that if you vote Wanda as the protagonist.

The only thing Agatha has done that Monica hasn’t done on a more extreme basis is kill a (possibly fake) dog - to see if Wanda would revive it. Then again, Wanda is also kind of in the middle of a PTSD and depression-induced psychotic break while I'm pretty sure Agatha is fully in control of herself, so I might just be contradicting myself AGAIN.

The reason why I'm reluctant to call Agatha a villain is because of what somebody posted elsewhere: "Rather than look at what we have been told, look at what we haven't. Agatha practices the "darkest of magics", but all she was doing was begging for her mother to teach her how to use it. She seemed to possess little to no control over it, but we know from her mother that she sought out knowledge above her "station" which makes her hungry for knowledge. So Agatha was clearly telling the truth when she said she originally just wanted to know how Wanda was pulling off the Hex. She assumed it was a deeply complex web of multiple spells all interwoven with each other, but upon seeing Wanda's past she realized the truth - that Wanda was using Chaos Magic, another "darkest of magics", with no apparent control over its effect. If Agatha was evil, if she had any original intentions beyond merely satisfying her curiosity, then surely she would've done worse by now than just kill a dog that probably isn't even real? She's the antagonist insofar as she's apparently trying to get Wanda to face a truth she doesn't want to accept so that she'll shut down the Hex, but a villain? I don't think so."

I agree with all of this, except that Agatha's way of doing things makes her look villainous, especially killing the dog and kidnapping the boys.

[Journey]

Yeah Agatha is evil I know people want the mentor comic angle but at this point it's clear that hatchet is way to deep she's choking the life out of her kids people would roast Wanda alive if she became buddy buddy with her after that.

Also I gotta say coming into this show with 0 expectations worked out well for me I never cared about MCU Wanda or Vision or the relationship. And just taking the show at face value has really allowed me to develop some care for the characters like if Vision dies on Friday I will be very sad. When he died in Infinity War I laughed at it the second time because it was practically comical.

[Albert1981]

Yeah Agatha is evil I know people want the mentor comic angle but at this point it's clear that hatchet is way to deep she's choking the life out of her kids people would roast Wanda alive if she became buddy buddy with her after that.

Also I gotta say coming into this show with 0 expectations worked out well for me I never cared about MCU Wanda or Vision or the relationship. And just taking the show at face value has really allowed me to develop some care for the characters like if Vision dies on Friday I will be very sad. When he died in Infinity War I laughed at it the second time because it was practically comical.

Yeah, I agree with you. I liked Wanda and Vision fine in the movies, but I was definitely more invested in dudes like Stark, Strange and Thor. Even Nick Fury. Because they were basically assholes and goofballs and I like those kinds of personalities. I will be very sad when Vision dies on Friday, but unlike in Infinity War, this death will have been earned. In that sense, I think the show has succeeded.