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Thread: Wandavision

  1. #2011

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    spoilers:
    Well, now that you put it that way, I can see why the episode went the way it did. But hell, to watch the Dick Van Dyke show while a gun battle is raging outside is really weird to me!
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    Consider it an escape from awful things they have no control over.
    end of spoilers
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  2. #2012
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Like CJStriker said before, I definitely want to know how deeply implicated Wanda is when it comes to the citizens of Westview being mind-controlled. There's just no justifying it in my mind. I'm not sure if the show is committed to making Wanda responsible or not at this point, but it's absolutely indefensible in my mind. That's why I was never thrilled with the House of M storyline being adapted in the MCU. Some posters on other forums have even called it a form of "mental rape." Sure Westview was probably a shithole before she got there, and property values have gone up and infrastructure has improved since her arrival. But this kind of behavior (if Wanda is responsible for it) is not befitting of an Avenger. "The powerful women go crazy" thing has been done too many times in the comic books, but I don't want Wanda to be stripped of agency and/or "mind-controlled" either. That would be highly problematic as well. But how can anybody defend what Wanda did to Norm?:

    "Please help me. What day is it? How long has it been? Where's my phone? I have to call my sister. She's taking care of our dad, he's sick! Where's my phone!? You have to stop her! She's in my head...none of it is my own. It hurts. It hurts so much. Just make her stop!"

    The show has done a great job of making Hayward and SWORD villains. But besides their deceptive and inhuman methods, what is so wrong about them being concerned for the people of Westview and their determination to rescue them? I don't get it. Any respectable government would be doing the same thing. Wanda even left the Hex to let them know EXACTLY what she was doing so it's not like she was completely in the dark about what was going on. The writers better have a good explanation about what's happening because in my eyes Wanda is not acting like a hero (and I really don't like that).
    Last edited by Albert1981; 02-28-2021 at 02:20 PM.

  3. #2013
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    If Fietro is just some dude with no powers that Agatha just used and granted fake abilities to, I am going to laugh so hard I am going to throw up.

    The angry fanboy backlash would be worse than Iron Man 3's "The Mandarin".

  4. #2014

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    Like CJStriker said before, I definitely want to know how deeply implicated Wanda is when it comes to the citizens of Westview being mind-controlled. There's just no justifying it in my mind. I'm not sure if the show is committed to making Wanda responsible or not at this point, but it's absolutely indefensible in my mind. That's why I was never thrilled with the House of M storyline being adapted in the MCU. Some posters on other forums have even called it a form of "mental rape." Sure Westview was probably a shithole before she got there, and property values have gone up and infrastructure has improved since her arrival. But this kind of behavior (if Wanda is responsible for it) is not befitting of an Avenger. "The powerful women go crazy" thing has been done too many times in the comic books, but I don't want Wanda to be stripped of agency and/or "mind-controlled" either. That would be highly problematic as well. But how can anybody defend what Wanda did to Norm?:

    "Please help me. What day is it? How long has it been? Where's my phone? I have to call my sister. She's taking care of our dad, he's sick! Where's my phone!? You have to stop her! She's in my head...none of it is my own. It hurts. It hurts so much. Just make her stop!"

    The show has done a great job of making Hayward and SWORD villains. But besides their deceptive and inhuman methods, what is so wrong about them being concerned for the people of Westview and their determination to rescue them? I don't get it. Any respectable government would be doing the same thing. Wanda even left the Hex to let them know EXACTLY what she was doing so it's not like she was completely in the dark about what was going on. The writers better got a good explanation of what's happening because in my eyes Wanda is not acting like a hero (and I really don't like that).
    I think the justification is the amount of grief that unleashed the power beyond her control. That doesn't make it better for the citizens there though. They were unfortunate victims of a character whose power is beyond her control. And likely she will have to get those powers under control. Her powers aren't also completely to blame either. Somethings were also being pushed by Agatha's manipulations.

    Hayward would be fine if his concern were legit. But he's instead tried to push Wanda into doing stuff that he claims to be against so it could likely power the Vision so he could use him as a weapon.

    I don't think this is supposed to depict Wanda as a villain or a hero, but just a troubled person in need of therapy and powers training. She's still in the infancy of her abilities.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  5. #2015
    Incredible Member starduck's Avatar
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    Episode 8 seems to imply the Hex was all Wanda so yeah... well at least it's slightly better than the genocide from HoM

  6. #2016
    Wanda & Ribrianne~4~Life! CJStriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    The first (and to this date clearest) explanation of "chaos magic" was in the issue that introduced it, issue #10 of the 1998 Avengers relaunch (volume 3). Agatha Harkness explains to Wanda that she has energy-wielding mutant powers like her father Magneto, but the energy she can manipulate is chaos magic. When she's not tapping very deeply into this magic, her powers manifest the way they did in most comics: as hex bolts that can alter probabilities to make unlikely things happen. If she actually consciously taps into the magic and has the time and training to do a real spell, she can do bigger things.

    But the point of the retcon is that everything she did in comics from her first appearance is a manifestation of her chaos magic, because that's the energy that powers her hexes.

    Speaking of Agatha Harkness, spoilers:
    I'm becoming resigned that they probably won't have time to make her not an antagonist. She might be like Loki in the first Avengers movie, someone who doesn't always have to be an antagonist, but I don't think there's time to introduce another villain to the characters, if not the audience.

    But at least this last episode did sort of give us Agatha as Wanda's mentor, since she was the one who revealed the true nature of Wanda's powers to her, and she was the one who finally broke Wanda out of her state of denial to face up to what she's gone through and how she got into this. So even if her motives were selfish she did help Wanda, and Westview, more than anyone in this series except Monica.
    end of spoilers
    If Anyone Wants more of the Page by Page of this Issue to Learn More about the Origins of Wanda and Chaos Magic from that Issue, just click on the link below!

    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post5404706
    "By Earth and Sky, By Craft and Hex -- By The Past and The Future I Call HOPE Forth From The DARKNESS!
    I Speak The Words We Made Into MAGIC!
    Let THEIR Power Augment Our OWN! To Strike ONE BLOW From Our HEARTS and SOULS From ALL THAT WE ARE!
    Let The CALL Go Forth --
    AVENGERS! ASSEMBLE!"


    Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff ~~ From Avengers #689!

    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread 2021!

  7. #2017
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    I thought maybe she might be part of the Salem Seven since that's part of Wanda's lore and history. But now I think Dottie was just there to keep us guessing. Unless there is some cliffhanger reveal.
    I at least would have liked that too. I felt that some of the folks could be SS in disguise. the folks who possibly had the most iconic/unusual faces; Phil, though not really. Herb?

    The first episode boss of Visions was a frumpier version of Nicholas Scratch, to me/possibly.
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  8. #2018
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    I think the justification is the amount of grief that unleashed the power beyond her control. That doesn't make it better for the citizens there though. They were unfortunate victims of a character whose power is beyond her control. And likely she will have to get those powers under control. Her powers aren't also completely to blame either. Somethings were also being pushed by Agatha's manipulations.

    Hayward would be fine if his concern were legit. But he's instead tried to push Wanda into doing stuff that he claims to be against so it could likely power the Vision so he could use him as a weapon.

    I don't think this is supposed to depict Wanda as a villain or a hero, but just a troubled person in need of therapy and powers training. She's still in the infancy of her abilities.
    I could sort of see where the MCU seems to be heading, though it does wind up creating quite the downer or at least bittersweet ending for Wandavision: there isn't any hard punishment or redemption or comeuppance for Wanda, her actions just lead to more consequences. It creates a schism between the audience and in-universe people, where the former might be more sympathetic and truly willing to see her redeem herself while the latter opens up to something like the Thunderbolts. Because if I was that lady who was crying in that Halloween episode, for sure I would want Wanda dead for what she was doing to my family. And people like her would demand action be taken against "rogue" Avengers such as her.

  9. #2019
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    Like I said earlier in the thread, I would have preferred if Norm had been referring to someone else when he said "she's in my head," but like a lot of things there likely won't be any time to introduce new twists. They'll have a hard enough time explaining why she can't just keep the Hex going and let the civilians out of it.

    Based on what Monica said and some other things we've learned, we should probably assume that Wanda was unconsciously doing a ot of this and by the time she started to become aware that she was behind it, she knew on some level that stopping it would cause her to lose Vision again. Monica also suggested that Wanda knew on some level that this was wrong and that's why she let Monica become her confidante, even though she could easily have seen into Monica's mind and known who she was. It might also be that "broadcasting" the sitcom was her own way of going against herself, but we'll see if they explain that.

    At this point I don't think they can fully absolve her and I don't think they should, her job will be to make it up to anyone she harmed while working to make sure she never does anything like this again. At least they haven't had her kill anybody, and Hayward deliberately ruined any chance SWORD had of getting her to trust them, so she can come back from this if they emphasize that this is the start of her becoming more accountable and more in control.
    Last edited by gurkle; 02-28-2021 at 02:41 PM.

  10. #2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    Like CJStriker said before, I definitely want to know how deeply implicated Wanda is when it comes to the citizens of Westview being mind-controlled. There's just no justifying it in my mind. I'm not sure if the show is committed to making Wanda responsible or not at this point, but it's absolutely indefensible in my mind. That's why I was never thrilled with the House of M storyline being adapted in the MCU. Some posters on other forums have even called it a form of "mental rape." Sure Westview was probably a shithole before she got there, and property values have gone up and infrastructure has improved since her arrival. But this kind of behavior (if Wanda is responsible for it) is not befitting of an Avenger. "The powerful women go crazy" thing has been done too many times in the comic books, but I don't want Wanda to be stripped of agency and/or "mind-controlled" either. That would be highly problematic as well. But how can anybody defend what Wanda did to Norm?:

    "Please help me. What day is it? How long has it been? Where's my phone? I have to call my sister. She's taking care of our dad, he's sick! Where's my phone!? You have to stop her! She's in my head...none of it is my own. It hurts. It hurts so much. Just make her stop!"

    The show has done a great job of making Hayward and SWORD villains. But besides their deceptive and inhuman methods, what is so wrong about them being concerned for the people of Westview and their determination to rescue them? I don't get it. Any respectable government would be doing the same thing. Wanda even left the Hex to let them know EXACTLY what she was doing so it's not like she was completely in the dark about what was going on. The writers better have a good explanation about what's happening because in my eyes Wanda is not acting like a hero (and I really don't like that).
    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    I think the justification is the amount of grief that unleashed the power beyond her control. That doesn't make it better for the citizens there though. They were unfortunate victims of a character whose power is beyond her control. And likely she will have to get those powers under control. Her powers aren't also completely to blame either. Somethings were also being pushed by Agatha's manipulations.

    Hayward would be fine if his concern were legit. But he's instead tried to push Wanda into doing stuff that he claims to be against so it could likely power the Vision so he could use him as a weapon.

    I don't think this is supposed to depict Wanda as a villain or a hero, but just a troubled person in need of therapy and powers training. She's still in the infancy of her abilities.
    I Honestly Don't want to speculate what this is going to be or how this will be resolved cause the writers have greatly proven they have a far better ablity at this then any of us can hope to have in telling this story. I knew the Hayward video was a lye, but the way they exicuted it was brilliant beyond what I would have considered.

    This is a Far Cry from the Bendis days where bad writing and uncaring about Canon is SO easy to see that regular everday fans that don't write for a living knew how bad it was and how it was a hack job.

    We are just programed to wonder if writers on anything with Wanda will respect her since those days and their ablity to do her justice, that is an understable given.

    But this show has been like the rest of the MCU, just even many, many times greater and those movies where already great to her going into this show, a love and caring for Wanda in respecting her and explain her character and lore in such an emotional and well done way it is a Dream that we even have this team for our Wanda, it is like a miricale has come to past to finally have a team to treat her THIS RIGHT!

    It still depend on how they stick the landing and explain the other questions, like the Westview people and if Wanda is in a good place and a hero or becoming the hero we want to see her being, that is most important.

    BUT we need to take a calm and NOT get into Wanda Bad over the Westview people Until we get a given answer cause remember SO many on the net where Certain Wanda Stole Vision's Body and was puppeting it all this time. YEAAAA Turns out that has BLOWN up in their faces cause it just took time for the writing to explain it by the timeline of the story.

    That is what we have to remember, a story explains itself when the time is right, it is the beauty of a story and of writting.

    We live in a Very we need to know all now society for both good and bad reasons, but a story like this is best leant to letting it tell its answers when right. If the writing was bad then the breaking down of it would make more sense, but we are on the other side of that.

    I just keep saying let the story tell what it need to tell to the very end, it has prove to give us so much we never knew we wanted or that we ever needed for our Wanda.

    I have hope, not blind hope just cautious optimism, that they will give us a work out of this point when the time comes.

    We will cross those bridges either on one side of this or the other when the time comes to be right.

    But as this show has proven to us, We just have to have Faith in the character of our Wanda to show the Best of her like the last episode 8 did to blowout the bad parts we though where, but now proven otherwise.

    Have Faith in Wanda's Character in this and give time for them to tell each tale, not blind hope, but cautious optimism again.

    We will cross either positive or negative bridge when we get to it, Together as always.
    "By Earth and Sky, By Craft and Hex -- By The Past and The Future I Call HOPE Forth From The DARKNESS!
    I Speak The Words We Made Into MAGIC!
    Let THEIR Power Augment Our OWN! To Strike ONE BLOW From Our HEARTS and SOULS From ALL THAT WE ARE!
    Let The CALL Go Forth --
    AVENGERS! ASSEMBLE!"


    Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff ~~ From Avengers #689!

    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread 2021!

  11. #2021
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    I mean, last episode basically subtlety implied the residents of the town are better off in her world. Westview was a dilapidated town full of tired eyed residents. Wanda revitalized the entire town, restored its crumbling infrastructure, and gave everyone jobs. I'm only half joking, because the episode really did seem like it was implying this. If this was the only consequence of Wanda's actions, it wouldn't be so bad. But we here know that's not all she did.

    But WandaVision is a situation entirely of her making which she has so far actively supported, even after learning the cost of it. Even if she's very sympathetic, she's 100 percent in the wrong here and it would be strange for the plot to let her off scot-free at the end of it, especially if the speculation about Vision coming fully back to life is true.

    I can see her realizing she's wrong (probably after saving the town from Agatha and White Vision), turning herself in to some kind of punishment, and then Strange bailing her out during Multiverse of Madness.

    As much as I like Wanda, I really hope this doesn't end with the town residents forgiving her or something. That would kinda be fucked up.
    Last edited by Albert1981; 02-28-2021 at 02:54 PM.

  12. #2022
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    I Honestly Don't want to speculate what this is going to be or how this will be resolved cause the writers have greatly proven they have a far better ablity at this then any of us can hope to have in telling this story. I knew the Hayward video was a lye, but the way they exicuted it was brilliant beyond what I would have considered.

    This is a Far Cry from the Bendis days where bad writing and uncaring about Canon is SO easy to see that regular everday fans that don't write for a living knew how bad it was and how it was a hack job.

    We are just programed to wonder if writers on anything with Wanda will respect her since those days and their ablity to do her justice, that is an understable given.

    But this show has been like the rest of the MCU, just even many, many times greater and those movies where already great to her going into this show, a love and caring for Wanda in respecting her and explain her character and lore in such an emotional and well done way it is a Dream that we even have this team for our Wanda, it is like a miricale has come to past to finally have a team to treat her THIS RIGHT!

    It still depend on how they stick the landing and explain the other questions, like the Westview people and if Wanda is in a good place and a hero or becoming the hero we want to see her being, that is most important.

    BUT we need to take a calm and NOT get into Wanda Bad over the Westview people Until we get a given answer cause remember SO many on the net where Certain Wanda Stole Vision's Body and was puppeting it all this time. YEAAAA Turns out that has BLOWN up in their faces cause it just took time for the writing to explain it by the timeline of the story.

    That is what we have to remember, a story explains itself when the time is right, it is the beauty of a story and of writting.

    We live in a Very we need to know all now society for both good and bad reasons, but a story like this is best leant to letting it tell its answers when right. If the writing was bad then the breaking down of it would make more sense, but we are on the other side of that.

    I just keep saying let the story tell what it need to tell to the very end, it has prove to give us so much we never knew we wanted or that we ever needed for our Wanda.

    I have hope, not blind hope just cautious optimism, that they will give us a work out of this point when the time comes.

    We will cross those bridges either on one side of this or the other when the time comes to be right.

    But as this show has proven to us, We just have to have Faith in the character of our Wanda to show the Best of her like the last episode 8 did to blowout the bad parts we though where, but now proven otherwise.

    Have Faith in Wanda's Character in this and give time for them to tell each tale, not blind hope, but cautious optimism again.

    We will cross either positive or negative bridge when we get to it, Together as always.
    spoilers:
    Your optimism is most encouraging and uplifting. Thank you for sharing!

    The Scarlet Witch will always be a hero to me. But the audience isn't the people living inside the MCU. Having the population distrust (and even criminalize) their heroes is bread and butter Marvel Comics.

    Wanda isn't coming out of this celebrated as a beloved Avenger.

    As you say this is ultimately where it lands - like, if I'm Norm, and I spend a couple weeks being mentally controlled and abused by this woman, and my sick dad dies in the interim? Even if I understand that it's not REALLY her fault, my thought is going to be, "if she was in the Raft, this wouldn't have happened." Having someone who's a couple bad days away from another accidental mass casualty event walking around free is bad for everyone.

    Having issues with mental health or being neurologically atypical, there's nothing wrong with those things. But if you have those problems, and you know people around you may be at risk, it IS your responsibility to mitigate that risk. If you're at risk of a mental break, don't carry around a gun, y'know?

    After Civil War, Wanda should be aware that she's not fully in control of her powers, and that if she's not at 100%, things can and will go wrong. That's strike one. Now she continues to walk around with a loaded gun, has made no effort (to our knowledge) to improve her understanding or control of those powers, and she's hurt THOUSANDS of people. That's strike two. Great power, great responsibility.

    (With the asterisk that, as an international fugitive, her opportunities to find that help were probably pretty scarce. Ross and his hardline tactics are part of the reason we are where we are. But so is Cap and his "freedom isn't free" bullshit - staying confined to house arrest at the Avengers compound until she got a handle on her powers would have been the best case scenario.)

    This is Marvel, though. I don't see the community coming out hating Wanda. After all, Monica was under control and felt her pain. So we can assume all residents will have inherent sympathy for her.

    Then you combine that with her improving the infrastructure and property value of the town and then likely even throw in a smaltzy, "the whole experience was a communal therapy session for the whole town" as all the residents seemed miserable and depressed post-snap. And well, baby, you got yourself a redemption stew.
    end of spoilers
    Last edited by Albert1981; 02-28-2021 at 03:05 PM.

  13. #2023
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    I don't think ATJ will come back because WandaVision is all about Wanda moving on from losing the people she loved in her life. If ATJ returned, I think that would diminish that storyline.
    I can certainly understand that argument. It's the one reason why I think he might not come back, too. However, I also think about how the show might end, and the fate of Vision and the twins. Teyonah Parris already said the ending of the show will be sad, so there is a strong possibility Wanda won't get to keep her family. Even if the body of the original Vision remains, it's entirely possible we're gonna get the same situation like in the comics where he was ''rebooted'' and stripped of all of his emotions for Wanda. He wouldn't be her Vision. And even if the kids don't die completely, we know that they might need to separate them from her and possibly wipe their history together for us to get Wiccan and Speed (assuming they wanna give them an origin that resembles the comics in any way). So, by the end of the show.... she might not have her brother, lover OR kids anymore. That will certainly be a blow to the character, emotionally. In that scenario, would it really be that bad if she at least got to have her brother back, after going through so much loss AGAIN? I get the point about moving on, but the fanboy part of me also thinks she deserves SOME form of a happy ending.

  14. #2024
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    These kind of stories may have more than one twist in mind. There are still things that could happen or be revealed, and some left for another time. Time is not necessarily a problem if simple seeding or revelations might happen.

    Maybe Westview is New Salem. And/or maybe Agatha was already in proximity as were other possible magic users.

    or those others were equally drawn here and are caught in Wanda's spell, though like Agatha, they may have some sense or more of what is going on. So maybe that Dottie, whoever she may be.

    Now 'if' the town or most of it, were New Salem, then typically they're evil witches and Wanda was drawn there possibly subconsciously and the results happen, but
    those folks are not so unguilty, maybe?
    Clues: The basement of Agatha looks like it could have been there more than a century, hahaha.
    Considering the weirdness of 'for the children' and a slightly better look at her nearest neighbors, there must be some clue, perhaps. It wouldn't be like Marvel to somehow address this, even if the action or energy moves elsewhere. (I can't see why that would be though)
    So my short story is, if the town was New Salem, or some of its folks were from there, than they maybe were already controlling it (hence the run down?)
    And Wanda has only remolded that.
    I guess it is a sketchy theory
    ~ Oberon ~
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  15. #2025
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    I can certainly understand that argument. It's the one reason why I think he might not come back, too. However, I also think about how the show might end, and the fate of Vision and the twins. Teyonah Parris already said the ending of the show will be sad, so there is a strong possibility Wanda won't get to keep her family. Even if the body of the original Vision remains, it's entirely possible we're gonna get the same situation like in the comics where he was ''rebooted'' and stripped of all of his emotions for Wanda. He wouldn't be her Vision. And even if the kids don't die completely, we know that they might need to separate them from her and possibly wipe their history together for us to get Wiccan and Speed (assuming they wanna give them an origin that resembles the comics in any way). So, by the end of the show.... she might not have her brother, lover OR kids anymore. That will certainly be a blow to the character, emotionally. In that scenario, would it really be that bad if she at least got to have her brother back, after going through so much loss AGAIN? I get the point about moving on, but the fanboy part of me also thinks she deserves SOME form of a happy ending.
    Dude, I'm totally in the same boat as you. That's why I argued that the MCU has piled on TOO much on Wanda here. Having her parents, brother, boyfriend, kids AND dog be killed off is a LOT of trauma. She definitely deserves some form of happy ending. That's why I keep asking, is there a light at the end of this tunnel? I mean, going through these stages of grief is important. But if all she gets from this experience is Fietro as her "brother" that would be truly fucked up. I'm hoping she gets to keep her kids. That's the most likely scenario in my opinion.

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