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Thread: Wandavision

  1. #2131
    Fantastic Member Harsh Lesson's Avatar
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    Posted this in the blue Marvel thread as well:

    Allow me to preface what I'm about to say by acknowledging that I'm reading way too far into things.

    I've not played Marvel Future Fight in about year & a half. Logged on today, and what do I see? The Ultimates: Blue Marvel, Anti-Man, & America Chavez; received an update within the month, first time since they debuted, allowing them to "realize potential" & push their max levels from 60 to 70. Of the 250 or so characters that are now represented in the game, they belong to a group of 27 who before said update, were stuck at 60.

    I'd predicted the Ultimates would be coming to the MCU(long before America Chavez or Monica were confirmed) due to the timing, randomness, and scale(Added an additional chapter to the story mode, hasn't happened since) of the original update that brought them to the game. Now, three years later, their second update coincidentally coincides with Monica's introduction in Wandavision, & the speculation around the identity of her aerospace engineer?

    I'll probably be let down, but I can't wait for Thursday!

    edit: Even if he's not our Aerospace engineer, I have a strong feeling he's coming to the MCU. Way too much potential there from a cinematic standpoint, much more than the comics even.

    edit: Monica debuted on January 29th, the update to the Ultimates dropped February 10th.

    https://www.marvel.com/articles/game...l-future-fight
    Forgot to post this, why I don't think we've met our aerospace engineer yet:

    "When I, well ... I can't wait to see what y'all's reaction is when you learn who the aerospace engineer is," she told ComicBook.com. "Everything about this show excites me. There are so many little surprises, things you don't expect. So in keeping with the theme the show has already set up, I'm always excited."
    https://www.comicbookmovie.com/tv/ma...2556#gs.uzta8o

    Major Goodner is an entirely new character, I can't imagine that's who she was referring to
    Last edited by Harsh Lesson; 03-02-2021 at 05:54 PM.

  2. #2132
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    First of all, I just want to say that I really liked the writing in Episode 8. It was great.

    Here are some comments which reinforce my belief that Fietro IS Peter:

    "All I’m saying is Feige literally saying out loud in a presentation that WandaVision leads directly into Multiverse of Madness and then giving us the Fox version of Peter is a pretty clear signal that we’re looking at a multiverse version of Peter and not just a coincidental nod/troll to fans. Let's be clear: it's absolutely important that Fietro is being played by Evan Peters, the other guy who played Quicksilver. It both leans into it as a casting gag (partially as a riff on sitcom recasts and guest stars) while also tickling the idea that maybe this might just be the other guy. Those expectations are being deliberately set as an additional mystery to what's going on in Westview. And it can either play to those expectations straight or subvert them, and either way's valid as long as they give a good-enough answer. We know they’re introducing the multiverse. Dramatically introducing a character who is explicitly from another movie universe and then trying to backtrack and turn it into, what, I don’t even know, some kind of joke? would be the very definition of a pulled punch. What I find really funny is all the people that want to discredit it always bend over backward and stretch like hell to explain why he won't be Peter. When the simplest explanation for why they cast Evan Peters is that he just is that dude + Multiverse shenanigans. How they explain it doesn't matter, it's the easiest conclusion to come to, and the MCU has never been about making things more complicated than they need to be. If the theory is wrong, oh well, we were wrong. But to act like it's not a reasonable theory at this point just seems like it's coming from spite against the X-Men movies rather than coming from rational thought. Especially when they literally just did the same fakeout with the previous MCU headliner. How many times can you do "It's the multiverse!" "J/K, No actually it isn't" and still have the actual "It's the multiverse!" be taken seriously? I think you maybe get one pretend shot, which they've already used with Mysterio's made up backstory, they really shouldn't do it again."

    I do agree with Drops of Venus though. Fietro is NOT Wanda's brother. And since he was somehow "abducted" from another universe, I think it's VERY important that he be returned there. Replacing ATJ's Quicksilver with Peters' version is not respecting Wanda's relationship with the original MCU Pietro. So I believe Fietro's story continues in the Multiverse of Madness.
    Last edited by Albert1981; 03-02-2021 at 06:17 PM.

  3. #2133
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Personally I think Agatha is full of shit. I don't think she's being truthful in almost anything including being the big bad here. She is an extremely unreliable narrator. I believe she was drawn to the Hex and decided to see how she could use it to personally benefit. But she could be lying about that as well. I really believe Agatha could be the new female version of Loki.

  4. #2134
    Fantastic Member Venom Melendez's Avatar
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    Except Agatha has no reason to lie now. It's kinda silly to say she's lying after revealing she's a witch, not about everything anyway.

    As for Wandavision leading into Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness it could just mean Doctor Strange showing up to help Wanda, since we now know her powers are magic.

    I also feel like we're ignoring the Madness part in Multiverse of Madness. It's Doctor Strange film so i expect some type of mystical horror.
    Last edited by Venom Melendez; 03-02-2021 at 06:34 PM.

  5. #2135
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venom Melendez View Post
    Except Agatha has no reason to lie now. It's kinda silly to say she's lying after revealing she's a witch, not about everything anyway.

    As for Wandavision leading into Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness it could just mean Doctor Strange showing up to help Wanda, since we now know her powers are magic.
    I just feel there's more to Hahn than meets the eye. Besides killing dogs and choking children, she hasn't done anything really EVIL in my opinion. She wants to be good according to her own words. In regards to Strange 2, I think there has to be more than just "I want to learn magic" for Wanda to be in that sequel. I think she's there because of the twins, Fietro and possibly Agatha.

  6. #2136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    I really believe Agatha could be the new female version of Loki.
    I think you're right. While I don't like the idea of Agatha as an antagonist, it's obvious that they see a lot of potential in Kathryn Hahn to be the kind of breakout character Tom Hiddleston was as Loki, someone who can be against the heroes one minute and with them the next.

    Episode 8 portrayed Agatha as someone who is power-hungry and ruthless, but she also helped Wanda more than anyone in this series except maybe Monica. She helped Wanda for selfish reasons, but she still helped her enormously.

    So I wouldn't be surprised to see her come back with shifting alliances the way Loki does, or maybe even get her own show.

  7. #2137
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    I think you're right. While I don't like the idea of Agatha as an antagonist, it's obvious that they see a lot of potential in Kathryn Hahn to be the kind of breakout character Tom Hiddleston was as Loki, someone who can be against the heroes one minute and with them the next.

    Episode 8 portrayed Agatha as someone who is power-hungry and ruthless, but she also helped Wanda more than anyone in this series except maybe Monica. She helped Wanda for selfish reasons, but she still helped her enormously.

    So I wouldn't be surprised to see her come back with shifting alliances the way Loki does, or maybe even get her own show.
    It's one thing to be a villain. It's another to be an antagonist. I could live with that. Loki's murdered quite a few people, and that really hasn't hurt his popularity all that much. I think Agatha is a cunning and astute personality, but if she was so hateful why would she cry when Episode 8 flashbacked to Wanda's and Vision's conversation at Avengers' HQ?:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9qf5iZuguE

    Her personality is pretty complicated to me. And I'm curious about this whole "prophecy" thing with Wanda and how Agatha plays into it. I mean, I don't think that was a thing in the comic books. I could be wrong, but I don't recall anything like that. Again, I'm VERY happy that the MCU is deviating from the source material once more here and exploring a new aspect of Wanda's past.
    Last edited by Albert1981; 03-02-2021 at 09:26 PM.

  8. #2138
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    I don't think they're portraying Agatha as evil, no. Maybe there will be a "bigger bad" teased at the end of the series, like with Thanos in the first Avengers movie. But Agatha has already been clear about her motives: she has always wanted to increase her power, and when she found that this young witch had somehow pulled off one of the biggest spells of all time, she had to find out how it was done.

    She's obviously having fun messing with Wanda and Vision and camping it up as the wacky neighbor character, but everything she's been doing is just in the service of: get close to Wanda, find out what she knows. Only to become more and more frustrated as she realizes Wanda really doesn't know anything about magic at all.

  9. #2139
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    I don't think they're portraying Agatha as evil, no. Maybe there will be a "bigger bad" teased at the end of the series, like with Thanos in the first Avengers movie. But Agatha has already been clear about her motives: she has always wanted to increase her power, and when she found that this young witch had somehow pulled off one of the biggest spells of all time, she had to find out how it was done.

    She's obviously having fun messing with Wanda and Vision and camping it up as the wacky neighbor character, but everything she's been doing is just in the service of: get close to Wanda, find out what she knows. Only to become more and more frustrated as she realizes Wanda really doesn't know anything about magic at all.
    This show has definitely confused audiences with how they are portraying Wanda and Agatha. There have been so many swerves throughout the series, I just don't know who's doing what at this point. Hopefully this gets cleared up in Episode 9. I have all but given up on all the questions raised by this show being answered on Friday. There's just not enough time for that now. Stuff will have to be dealt with in other shows and movies. I doubt Monica is gonna get any training with her powers in the final episode. I doubt Fietro's fate will be revealed. I even think Agatha might escape as well. I'm pretty sure the twins will be in Doctor Strange 2. The only thing I'm almost a hundred percent certain of is that this will be Vision's curtain call. And if that's the case, I want the last episode to focus on Wanda and him to get that satisfying conclusion the people who created WandaVision have been promising. I'm really hoping that they stick the landing and that's the only way they can do that in my opinion. I think a LOT of fanboys and fangirls are gonna be upset that Reed Richards, Doctor Doom, Magneto, Mephisto, Wonder Man, Enchantress, Grim Reaper and Ultron don't show up. But the only cameo I'm expecting is Doctor Strange and maybe Wong. I wonder if they're gonna address "Ralph" in Episode 9. He hasn't been heard from in a while. I still believe a "bigger bad" is lurking here. I've bought some Nightmare stocks lately and sold most of my Mephisto ones.
    Last edited by Albert1981; 03-02-2021 at 10:06 PM.

  10. #2140

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    This show has definitely confused audiences with how they are portraying Wanda and Agatha. There have been so many swerves throughout the series, I just don't know who's doing what at this point. Hopefully this gets cleared up in Episode 9. I have all but given up on all the questions raised by this show being answered on Friday. There's just not enough time for that now. Stuff will have to be dealt with in other shows and movies. I doubt Monica is gonna get any training with her powers in the final episode. I doubt Fietro's fate will be revealed. I even think Agatha might escape as well. I'm pretty sure the twins will be in Doctor Strange 2. The only thing I'm almost a hundred percent certain of is that this will be Vision's curtain call. And if that's the case, I want the last episode to focus on Wanda and him to get that satisfying conclusion the people who created WandaVision have been promising. I'm really hoping that they stick the landing and that's the only way they can do that in my opinion. I think a LOT of fanboys and fangirls are gonna be upset that Reed Richards, Doctor Doom, Magneto, Mephisto, Wonder Man, Enchantress, and Ultron don't show up. But the only cameo I'm expecting is Doctor Strange and maybe Wong. I wonder if they're gonna address "Ralph" in Episode 9. He hasn't been heard from in a while. I still believe a "bigger bad" is lurking here. I've bought some Nightmare stocks lately and sold most of my Mephisto ones.
    I wouldn't even buy Nightmare stocks. He never had anything to do with chaos magic. And there might not be a bigger villain present yet. Chaos magic is linked to Chthon and even he might not be present. It could be just that the pages of the Darkhold were read by Agatha. Also, no one seems to have created this pocket existence other than Wanda's own powers in her moment of grief. So it's not a world she's been put into by someone like Nightmare. The villain could likely just be grief and ptsd.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  11. #2141
    Incredible Member teapartyofthedead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    I don't think they're portraying Agatha as evil, no. Maybe there will be a "bigger bad" teased at the end of the series, like with Thanos in the first Avengers movie. But Agatha has already been clear about her motives: she has always wanted to increase her power, and when she found that this young witch had somehow pulled off one of the biggest spells of all time, she had to find out how it was done.

    She's obviously having fun messing with Wanda and Vision and camping it up as the wacky neighbor character, but everything she's been doing is just in the service of: get close to Wanda, find out what she knows. Only to become more and more frustrated as she realizes Wanda really doesn't know anything about magic at all.
    It occurs to me. In Agatha’s flashback, she claims she is just that naturally powerful, that she couldn’t help but use forbidden magic as it responded to her without her prompting. She begs for help to learn how to control it, not trying to free herself even though we later see she could have at any time. Instead, she tries to negotiate and only starts a reverse magic drain when her mother and coven begin carrying out their sentence and wouldn’t be persuaded otherwise. It speaks to ruthlessness, but also a desire to avoid confrontation in favor of non-violent negotiations.

    What if Agatha, while initially only looking for the source of so much magic for purely selfish but maybe not entire evil reasons, has come to sympathize with Wanda? At first, she wouldn’t give a flying fig about Wanda or Vision, while viewing Tommy and Billy as mere NPCs or an extension of Wanda herself instead of individuals in their own right. She kills an innocent dog to try to force Wanda to resurrect Sparky, and was shocked when Wanda said she couldn’t. ‘Agatha All Along’ makes it sound like an act of pure wickedness, but what if it was only due to her not realizing Sparky would actually stay dead? She probably saw Vision as evidence that Wanda could perform true resurrection on demand as long as they were all in Wanda’s Hex, or at least willing to risk the dog before the children or townsfolk Wanda might be moved to resurrect. So Agatha wouldn’t be too torn up about it and even make jokes about such a terrible crime, rationalizing that once she gets at the heart of Wanda’s powers and can actively control it, Sparky would be good as new, if he was ever real in the first place.

    But while trapped in West View, watching Wanda every second of every day (presumably), something in between Stockholm syndrome and Lima syndrome begins to develop. Walking Wanda through so much grief and despair, experiencing the emotions first hand despite her worst intentions, touches Agatha and sees something of herself in Wanda.

    When White Vision comes calling, Agatha might help out in the fight. This could come out of sympathy to Wanda and a natural tendency to avoid unnecessary violence when possible, especially against people who haven’t actively harmed her. Or out of self-preservation, as Hayward doesn’t seem overly concerned with friendly fire casualties, or civilian losses. I can see him ordering White Vision to destroy Wanda no matter the cost. Maybe Agatha offers to teach Wanda proper magic instruction in the aftermath, in exchange for favors in the future. This could lead to an uneasy alliance, that then normalizes as they come to see each other as a person and not an obstacle to their goals.

    Or maybe yet another Marvel antagonist with glowing potential ends up being dispensed of far too quickly. I really hope not.

  12. #2142
    Incredible Member teapartyofthedead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    I'm really hoping that they stick the landing and that's the only way they can do that in my opinion. I think a LOT of fanboys and fangirls are gonna be upset that Reed Richards, Doctor Doom, Magneto, Mephisto, Wonder Man, Enchantress, and Ultron don't show up. But the only cameo I'm expecting is Doctor Strange and maybe Wong. I wonder if they're gonna address "Ralph" in Episode 9. He hasn't been heard from in a while. I still believe a "bigger bad" is lurking here. I've bought some Nightmare stocks lately and sold most of my Mephisto ones.
    It has taken all my will power not to set aside my homework to disabuse those kind of fan and their insistence on Wanda as some multiverse Madonna that will be the handmaid to mutant ascendancy. I swear, some of them sound like they’re debating religious parables or divining lines of Nostradamus, with as much familiarity and comprehension with each set of text, which is to say little to none. Worse, it seems to have inflamed the rivalry between the MCU and Fox fans, the X-Men vs Avengers rivalry, the gatekeepers vs the locals, and the Reddit vs 4chan rivalry. They’re all taking what should be a good and exciting time to wage a cold war against each other.

    I’m becoming concerned that no matter how this show ends, it won’t please anybody because society as a whole has mainstreamed toxic fandom behaviors.

  13. #2143
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    Quote Originally Posted by teapartyofthedead View Post
    It occurs to me. In Agatha’s flashback, she claims she is just that naturally powerful, that she couldn’t help but use forbidden magic as it responded to her without her prompting. She begs for help to learn how to control it, not trying to free herself even though we later see she could have at any time. Instead, she tries to negotiate and only starts a reverse magic drain when her mother and coven begin carrying out their sentence and wouldn’t be persuaded otherwise. It speaks to ruthlessness, but also a desire to avoid confrontation in favor of non-violent negotiations.
    That's a good point. The scene is pretty ambiguous about whether Agatha is telling the truth, but what she claims of herself -- she didn't mean to break the rules, the dark magic just came to her and she doesn't know how to control it -- is definitely true of Wanda, who had no idea how her powers worked and cast a seemingly-impossible spell completely by accident. That makes her dangerous, as Agatha points out, but hopefully it also makes her someone who could use her power for good if she knew how it worked.

  14. #2144
    Wanda & Ribrianne~4~Life! CJStriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teapartyofthedead View Post
    It has taken all my will power not to set aside my homework to disabuse those kind of fan and their insistence on Wanda as some multiverse Madonna that will be the handmaid to mutant ascendancy. I swear, some of them sound like they’re debating religious parables or divining lines of Nostradamus, with as much familiarity and comprehension with each set of text, which is to say little to none. Worse, it seems to have inflamed the rivalry between the MCU and Fox fans, the X-Men vs Avengers rivalry, the gatekeepers vs the locals, and the Reddit vs 4chan rivalry. They’re all taking what should be a good and exciting time to wage a cold war against each other.

    I’m becoming concerned that no matter how this show ends, it won’t please anybody because society as a whole has mainstreamed toxic fandom behaviors.
    The Fandom behaviors can go as they choose to as long as they keep to themselves and not try to take othersites as well as characters as a whole down with them in Flamewars.

    To Me what seem to always subside this is when a new episode comes out and just keeps WOWing the audiances that are watching them. They open new concept and new doors that our minds have not ever yet considered not just for our Wanda, but as a concept of storytelling as a whole that goes beyond just shocking moments.

    It thing that has been the strenght of this series and how it as transcended those debates cause they seem small compared to what is being shown to audiances and the Completely and Now Lesser then the Phenomenon that is has become cementing all new lore into Fans and General Public's minds on Wanda and how deep both as a witch and as a person.

    Many keep underestimating each episode how this will wow them next and it dows in spades, that seems to be the medicine to this and while yea no matter what those will still be, the show has made bigger for us and others what really matters and that is Excellent and Loving storytelling while giving time to tell a story which is the most important lesson out of all of this;

    Time is given to tell Wanda's Story!
    "By Earth and Sky, By Craft and Hex -- By The Past and The Future – I Call HOPE Forth From The DARKNESS!
    I Speak The Words We Made Into MAGIC!
    Let THEIR Power Augment Our OWN! To Strike ONE BLOW From Our HEARTS and SOULS – From ALL THAT WE ARE!
    Let The CALL Go Forth --
    AVENGERS! ASSEMBLE!"


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  15. #2145
    Incredible Member teapartyofthedead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    That's a good point. The scene is pretty ambiguous about whether Agatha is telling the truth, but what she claims of herself -- she didn't mean to break the rules, the dark magic just came to her and she doesn't know how to control it -- is definitely true of Wanda, who had no idea how her powers worked and cast a seemingly-impossible spell completely by accident. That makes her dangerous, as Agatha points out, but hopefully it also makes her someone who could use her power for good if she knew how it worked.
    I’ve been trying to consider the show and the finale from both the Watsonian and Doylist perspective, trying to make them fit together to equal 1. Each second of this show is precious, and every scene has to serve a purpose even if it doubles as fan service. Jac schaeffer spoke in an interview about breaking away from hysterical or evil women with power stereotypes. What could be more archetypal of that than the wicked witch, feared for centuries for being the woman who dares to have power, especially more than the men in charge? It would be especially galling to take Wanda’s canon mentor and turn her into a villain, just so a man like Doctor Strange can take custody of Wanda and her training.

    Combined with my Watsonian points above, I have a strong hunch Agatha is going to be an uneasy ally and morally ambiguous mentor to Wanda, rather than fall prey to Marvel villain syndrome. At least I hope so.


    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    The Fandom behaviors can go as they choose to as long as they keep to themselves and not try to take othersites as well as characters as a whole down with them in Flamewars.

    To Me what seem to always subside this is when a new episode comes out and just keeps WOWing the audiances that are watching them. They open new concept and new doors that our minds have not ever yet considered not just for our Wanda, but as a concept of storytelling as a whole that goes beyond just shocking moments.

    It thing that has been the strenght of this series and how it as transcended those debates cause they seem small compared to what is being shown to audiances and the Completely and Now Lesser then the Phenomenon that is has become cementing all new lore into Fans and General Public's minds on Wanda and how deep both as a witch and as a person.

    Many keep underestimating each episode how this will wow them next and it dows in spades, that seems to be the medicine to this and while yea no matter what those will still be, the show has made bigger for us and others what really matters and that is Excellent and Loving storytelling while giving time to tell a story which is the most important lesson out of all of this;

    Time is given to tell Wanda's Story!
    I’m going to try to channel that kind of optimism and hope things settle down in the weeks after the finale. Or that it dies down around Falcon and the Winter Soldier without losing fan interest and enthusiasm. I don’t want Star Wars level of toxic to take Wanda down just as she’s finally beginning to rise again.

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