Wandavision

[Albert1981]

....and this is why I think these consideration were left to the different sensibilities of a varied viewership, one thing I would like to highlight is that when confronted with the citizens pain in episode 9 Wanda reaction after a very momentary denial was to immediately put a stop to the hex, if she had known all along they were in pain why would she stop now? it would have made no difference to her.
Wanda's shock and the fact that she gave up her reality warping fantasies after being confronted means hurting others was never her intent for sure.

Someone who harms someone as a consequence of their mental illness is not, fundamentally, at fault for their behavior. They BECOME at fault for that behavior when they, while lucid, are confronted with the harm they're doing to others and refuse to take steps to protect those people.

At what point is Wanda lucid? When she leaves the hex and threatens soldiers attempting to rescue her victims? When Vision confronts her directly about what she's doing? When she finally undoes what she wrought at the end? At some point in the duration of the show, she becomes responsible for her actions - at some point she's able to look clear-eyed at herself.

When the show ends, she's suffered another loss, probably among the biggest in her life. She isn't being treated for her illness. She isn't seeking help from someone with the means or ability to help her. She's self-isolating and expanding her capacity to do harm if/when she has another episode with a literal "book of the damned." She is NOT acting responsibly, and putting other people at risk.

That is what crosses the line for me. I don't trust Wanda to manage this on her own, because she failed catastrophically the first time around. She's knowingly putting other people at risk by doing so again. It's not about punishment, it's about harm-reduction. I thought this show was about Wanda dealing with her mental illness. Even superheroes should seek help if they know they are a risk to themselves and others. And she's not doing that. If she had, I think WandaVision would have really broken some new territory. It would have sent such a strong and positive message to MCU audiences. One that I think many of them need to hear. But no, we're onto Doctor Strange 2 because everything is supposedly connected in the MCU.

[Rang10]

Someone who harms someone as a consequence of their mental illness is not, fundamentally, at fault for their behavior. They BECOME at fault for that behavior when they, while lucid, are confronted with the harm they're doing to others and refuse to take steps to protect those people.

At what point is Wanda lucid? When she leaves the hex and threatens soldiers attempting to rescue her victims? When Vision confronts her directly about what she's doing? When she finally undoes what she wrought at the end? At some point in the duration of the show, she becomes responsible for her actions - at some point she's able to look clear-eyed at herself.

When the show ends, she's suffered another loss, probably among the biggest in her life. She isn't being treated for her illness. She isn't seeking help from someone with the means or ability to help her. She's self-isolating and expanding her capacity to do harm if/when she has another episode with a literal "book of the damned." She is NOT acting responsibly, and putting other people at risk.

That is what crosses the line for me. I don't trust Wanda to manage this on her own, because she failed catastrophically the first time around. She's knowingly putting other people at risk by doing so again. It's not about punishment, it's about harm-reduction. I thought this show was about Wanda dealing with her mental illness. Even superheroes should seek help if they know they are a risk to themselves and others. And she's not doing that. If she had, I think WandaVision would have really broken some new territory. It would have sent such a strong and positive message to MCU audiences. One that I think many of them need to hear. But no, we're onto Doctor Strange 2 because everything is supposedly connected in the MCU.

It's a superhero tv show, they arent going to therapy. There is not way of knowing she seek help.

Her first priority is know about her powers to not let westview happen again, the only reason it happened is because she didnt knew she was a witch

[Albert1981]

I don't think that's true. She did bring down the world. So she did reach acceptance stage. Depression does not go away, nor mourning for loved ones. But actively she doesn't seem to be in that fantasy dream state of avoiding it. And I don't see that last scene as ominous like others do. I think she's just learning about herself. And because she's an astral projection, it'll likely protect her from the book of sins.

Now the more trouble thing depends. Because whatever unspeakable evil Mordo forces Strange to unleash is likely something Wanda will have to deal with too. Since she's in that movie. And maybe that will be the link to where her kids are.

It's not amnesia. She just wasn't willing to confront what's really going on. Amnesia is not being able to remember. And the only things she didn't remember were things that never existed. Because she made up this little bubble. So things like anniversaries and such wouldn't exist there.

Dissociative amnesia is caused by trauma. Could have been what happened to Wanda.

[GenericUsername]

Dissociative amnesia is caused by trauma. Could have been what happened to Wanda.

Yes, but she didn't experience memory loss. She never made those memories she was talking about...

[Jewel Runner]

I wanted to crosspost from another thread why WandaVision left me so upset.

(Spoilers follow)

I don't mind that they took Wanda to a dark place, but I feel like the MCU creators don't see Wanda as cut out to be a hero. She tortured innocent people who were begging to be set free, and the only excuse they gave her is that she deluded herself into thinking they were happy. As Agatha pointed out, "heroes don't torture people." There was nothing in the entire series to show that she cared about anyone but herself.

Except that's false the series shows Wanda didn't mean to do any of it, and that she was unaware people were suffering, instead she thought their lives were being made better, you cant say she deluded herself into thinking that when nothing in the series indicates she knew what they were feeling beforehand

Sure, Monica told her about the sacrifice she made, but come on, everyone knew why that line was silly. And they didn't even give Wanda a chance to apologize to anyone except Monica, who was practically her only victim who got helped and not hurt.

This is especially wrong, the difference between Monica was the fact she had more context for Wanda's actions, to say it's silly just completely ignores what Wanda gave up to set the people free.
At a certain point you're ignoring the given information just to come to the conclusion they don't think Wanda's a hero.

Wanda is infinitely more interesting than Captain Marvel. Captain Marvel is a flat, dull, Mary Sue

And stopped reading there.
The second that phrase comes out you lose all credibility.

[CJStriker]

Someone who harms someone as a consequence of their mental illness is not, fundamentally, at fault for their behavior. They BECOME at fault for that behavior when they, while lucid, are confronted with the harm they're doing to others and refuse to take steps to protect those people.

At what point is Wanda lucid? When she leaves the hex and threatens soldiers attempting to rescue her victims? When Vision confronts her directly about what she's doing? When she finally undoes what she wrought at the end? At some point in the duration of the show, she becomes responsible for her actions - at some point she's able to look clear-eyed at herself.

When the show ends, she's suffered another loss, probably among the biggest in her life. She isn't being treated for her illness. She isn't seeking help from someone with the means or ability to help her. She's self-isolating and expanding her capacity to do harm if/when she has another episode with a literal "book of the damned." She is NOT acting responsibly, and putting other people at risk.

That is what crosses the line for me. I don't trust Wanda to manage this on her own, because she failed catastrophically the first time around. She's knowingly putting other people at risk by doing so again. It's not about punishment, it's about harm-reduction. I thought this show was about Wanda dealing with her mental illness. Even superheroes should seek help if they know they are a risk to themselves and others. And she's not doing that. If she had, I think WandaVision would have really broken some new territory. It would have sent such a strong and positive message to MCU audiences. One that I think many of them need to hear. But no, we're onto Doctor Strange 2 because everything is supposedly connected in the MCU.

If you are still looking for those answers, I again Highly and Honestly Importantly Suggest you go to my previous post in the link below and watch the video attached to it.

This is not just a recommendation, you should read what I wrote and watch the full video from beginning to and and dwell on it.

It seems like you are in pain and I don’t like seeing that with one of my friends(Yes, I do consider you a friend Al), so please go to the link below and take your time;

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post5417147

[Frontier]

I wanted to crosspost from another thread why WandaVision left me so upset.

(Spoilers follow)

I don't mind that they took Wanda to a dark place, but I feel like the MCU creators don't see Wanda as cut out to be a hero. She tortured innocent people who were begging to be set free, and the only excuse they gave her is that she deluded herself into thinking they were happy. As Agatha pointed out, "heroes don't torture people." There was nothing in the entire series to show that she cared about anyone but herself. Sure, Monica told her about the sacrifice she made, but come on, everyone knew why that line was silly. And they didn't even give Wanda a chance to apologize to anyone except Monica, who was practically her only victim who got helped and not hurt.

Maybe they intend for her to come back from this in Doctor Strange 2, or the now-inevitable WandaVision 2. And maybe they don't. But if you compare how they portrayed Carol coming into her full power, it's clear which character they think is good and which one they think is dangerous and scary.

So the message I got from the series is that Wanda isn't cut out to be a hero, and now that Vision isn't there to pull her back from the brink, she has to accept that her destiny is darkness and chaos. I don't see any hope that they'll let her help people. And if the MCU won't portray her as a true hero then it's unlikely the comics will.

So I have to stop following Wanda. It's very hard because I love and identify with the character so much. But I think it's clear to me that everyone in power at Marvel thinks she's "more interesting" if she's not a true hero. If they make her a quasi-villain in her first starring role, then I don't see how they will ever stop.

I'm much too depressed over a fictional character than I should be, I know. Maybe it's just that the character has helped me through some tough times and looking forward to her show helped me through this horrible year, and then they go and do this.

If I'm proven wrong and her next MCU role treats her better, then maybe I'll start following her again. But I have to stop following her now and learn to let her go.

I understand where you're coming from.

I don't feel like Wanda ended this story as a hero and I'm not sure about her trajectory in the MCU moving forward or how the filmmakers view her. And it concerns me that we have to go through this song and dance yet again for Wanda like we do in the comics.

It's not like we can even hope to get a carton featuring a Superheroic Wanda doing heroic things because that might never happen again anytime soon.

[Albert1981]

It's a superhero tv show, they arent going to therapy. There is not way of knowing she seek help.

Her first priority is know about her powers to not let westview happen again, the only reason it happened is because she didnt knew she was a witch

Going off and isolating and getting better at magic is not responsible. I understand that people who are in this kind of crisis do sometimes isolate, it makes narrative sense that Wanda would make that choice. It's not responsible, mental health wise, however. Maybe therapy is not possible in a superhero world. But she has friends that can support her. Hawkeye, Banner, Rhodey, Sam, Bucky, and even Cap! She probably even has Stephen Strange's number. If the MCU is so interconnected, why can't she pay any of them a visit? I thought WandaVision was about dealing with issues like mental health in constructive ways!

[Albert1981]

If you are still looking for those answers, I again Highly and Honestly Importantly Suggest you go to my previous post in the link below and watch the video attached to it.

This is not just a recommendation, you should read what I wrote and watch the full video from beginning to and and dwell on it.

It seems like you are in pain and I don’t like seeing that with one of my friends(Yes, I do consider you a friend Al), so please go to the link below and take your time;

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post5417147

Oh no. I'm not in pain. I'm actually happy as a lark! Just had a great meal. Those two things are probably connected. But I'm grateful that you consider me to be a friend. The feeling is mutual. I'm just dismayed at what this series has turned Wanda into. I was the most optimistic one in this thread about Wanda's "career trajectory" in future MCU projects, but that optimism has been cruelly dashed. The whole thing with White Vision and the missing twins just brings back a LOT of bad memories. I think Marvel Studios is adapting a lot of stuff from the comic books which I think are problematic. And yes, I believe WandaVision has "villainized" Wanda and I just never thought that would EVER happen in the MCU. I will take a look at that video though. Thanks for the recommendation!

[GenericUsername]

Going off and isolating and getting better at magic is not responsible. I understand that people who are in this kind of crisis do sometimes isolate, it makes narrative sense that Wanda would make that choice. It's not responsible, mental health wise, however. Maybe therapy is not possible in a superhero world. But she has friends that can support her. Hawkeye, Banner, Rhodey, Sam, Bucky, and even Cap! She probably even has Stephen Strange's number. If the MCU is so interconnected, why can't she pay any of them a visit?

Her learning to control her powers so they don't go wild the next time something bad happens IS responsible though. The other option would be to ignore it and she did that already with disastrous results. She could keep apologizing to the people of Westview, but that's not gonna undo what happened to them. Corporal punishment won't work because A. You can't keep a god-like being imprisoned for long, and B. it's dumb as hell to isolate her after her breakdown. Unless you want a cataclysm. Therapy is entirely possible. Wanda sought that out in her solo book.

[GenericUsername]

Oh no. I'm not in pain. I'm actually happy as a lark! Just had a great meal. Those two things are probably connected. But I'm grateful that you consider me to be a friend. The feeling is mutual. I'm just dismayed at what this series has turned Wanda into. I was the most optimistic one in this thread about Wanda's "career trajectory" in future MCU projects, but that optimism has been cruelly dashed. The whole thing with White Vision and the missing twins just brings back a LOT of bad memories. I think Marvel Studios is adapting a lot of stuff from the comic books which I think are problematic. And yes, I believe WandaVision has "villainized" Wanda and I just never thought that would EVER happen in the MCU. I will take a look at that video though. Thanks for the recommendation!

I don't think it villainized her. Just made her flawed. Villain would mean she meant to do what she did. When she really just made a horrible mistake. And her atonement will have to be making sure it never happens again.

[CJStriker]

Oh no. I'm not in pain. I'm actually happy as a lark! Just had a great meal. Those two things are probably connected. But I'm grateful that you consider me to be a friend. The feeling is mutual. I'm just dismayed at what this series has turned Wanda into. I was the most optimistic one in this thread about Wanda's "career trajectory" in future MCU projects, but that optimism has been cruelly dashed. The whole thing with White Vision and the missing twins just brings back a LOT of bad memories. I think Marvel Studios is adapting a lot of stuff from the comic books which I think are problematic. And yes, I believe WandaVision has "villainized" Wanda and I just never thought that would EVER happen in the MCU. I will take a look at that video though. Thanks for the recommendation!

I don't think it villainized her. Just made her flawed. Villain would mean she meant to do what she did. When she really just made a horrible mistake. And her atonement will have to be making sure it never happens again.

Indeed as GenericUsername says we just need to give the story time to tell his full story and you watch that Video and read many of the past posts to help you through this and understand things in a better light for Our Wanda.

[Albert1981]

I don't think it villainized her. Just made her flawed. Villain would mean she meant to do what she did. When she really just made a horrible mistake. And her atonement will have to be making sure it never happens again.

I hope you're right. I think you are. But my question is why doesn't Captain Marvel and/or Wonder Woman have to deal with this kind of drama?!

[GenericUsername]

I hope you're right. I think you are. But my question is why doesn't Captain Marvel and/or Wonder Woman have to deal with this kind of drama?!

Wonder Woman just did some pretty questionable things in 1984. There was a big thing about the lack of consent that random dude had that she had parade around as Steve.

[Albert1981]

Her learning to control her powers so they don't go wild the next time something bad happens IS responsible though. The other option would be to ignore it and she did that already with disastrous results. She could keep apologizing to the people of Westview, but that's not gonna undo what happened to them. Corporal punishment won't work because A. You can't keep a god-like being imprisoned for long, and B. it's dumb as hell to isolate her after her breakdown. Unless you want a cataclysm. Therapy is entirely possible. Wanda sought that out in her solo book.

Confinement is impossible with Wanda now. Hopefully she can redeem herself somehow in the future. Hopefully in Doctor Strange 2!