Wandavision

[FFJamie94]

I feel Wandavision kinda shot themselves in the foot with the finale. The first half of the series was pretty well received, it going in a different direction to most MCU projects and was able to get People who weren't interested in the MCU, interested in the show. Even through there was a sitcom style that changed up with every episode, it all felt connected thematically and through tone. It was essentially a deconstruction of TV sitcoms, and that was enjoyable to watch. It felt refreshing that they were bringing out new ideas from a franchise that honestly is getting a bit tiring. It wasn't about large epic battles, but rather a small scale story which is essentially a tragedy. Wanda is a tragic character, she has lost both her Parents and her Husband and she really feels she doesn't have anything left. She created her own fantasy World and the show was going in the direction that it was all leading to her.
The problem is, instead of pulling off that story, it got turned into the generic MCU story. They had to make a character who is essentially a mentor figure to Wanda in the comics and make her the main antagonist because they know People will flip their **** about it.

I feel if they went the full way with Wanda being the fallen Hero, it would have essentially kept more People happy. The MCU fans will enjoy it because it's setting up a conflict for Doctor Strange 2 and we know what's at stake. We understand that Wanda will become more powerful and what she's done is destructive enough.
The non-MCU fans will enjoy it because it gave them something different that didn't end with massive set pieces.
I think Marvel Studios underestimated just how successful and acclaimed those first few episodes beers going to be.
Coming into Wandavision, it felt like it was treated as more of a pilot to see if the show could become a success. It the first thing they did to kick start the new phrase and their first from their TV division. It felt like they were testing the waters to see if they can do something new and for the most part, it worked.
I'm hoping we see less of the big epic battles because those have honestly been done to death. If you keep putting them in there, they feel less special and the impact of major events like Endgame are tarnished because we've already seen this fight 100 times before.
What Marvel needs to do going forward is make more introspective works. It's what happened with the comics throughout the 80's. Marvel became a lot more critical of itself, trying to see how far they can push their characters.

[Albert1981]

I feel Wandavision kinda shot themselves in the foot with the finale. The first half of the series was pretty well received, it going in a different direction to most MCU projects and was able to get People who weren't interested in the MCU, interested in the show. Even through there was a sitcom style that changed up with every episode, it all felt connected thematically and through tone. It was essentially a deconstruction of TV sitcoms, and that was enjoyable to watch. It felt refreshing that they were bringing out new ideas from a franchise that honestly is getting a bit tiring. It wasn't about large epic battles, but rather a small scale story which is essentially a tragedy. Wanda is a tragic character, she has lost both her Parents and her Husband and she really feels she doesn't have anything left. She created her own fantasy World and the show was going in the direction that it was all leading to her.
The problem is, instead of pulling off that story, it got turned into the generic MCU story. They had to make a character who is essentially a mentor figure to Wanda in the comics and make her the main antagonist because they know People will flip their **** about it.

I feel if they went the full way with Wanda being the fallen Hero, it would have essentially kept more People happy. The MCU fans will enjoy it because it's setting up a conflict for Doctor Strange 2 and we know what's at stake. We understand that Wanda will become more powerful and what she's done is destructive enough.
The non-MCU fans will enjoy it because it gave them something different that didn't end with massive set pieces.
I think Marvel Studios underestimated just how successful and acclaimed those first few episodes beers going to be.
Coming into Wandavision, it felt like it was treated as more of a pilot to see if the show could become a success. It the first thing they did to kick start the new phrase and their first from their TV division. It felt like they were testing the waters to see if they can do something new and for the most part, it worked.
I'm hoping we see less of the big epic battles because those have honestly been done to death. If you keep putting them in there, they feel less special and the impact of major events like Endgame are tarnished because we've already seen this fight 100 times before.
What Marvel needs to do going forward is make more introspective works. It's what happened with the comics throughout the 80's. Marvel became a lot more critical of itself, trying to see how far they can push their characters.

Yeah, I agree with that. Lots of folks online stated that they loved the first half of the series. And quite a few still enjoyed it up to Episode 8. And many of those people HATE superhero films and movies and don't follow the MCU at ALL. I thought the writing team was really creative and original with their storytelling mixing in both humor and drama nicely for most of the series. But I think they were force to tack on stuff by higher-ups to help set up things for future movies and shows and for world building. The SWORD stuff was interesting to me in Episode 4, but after that anything happening outside of the Hex just became exposition dumps. I think the writers and performers were bored with it too! The moments shared between Wanda, Vision and the twins were really poignant and the discussion about the Theseus's Ship between the Visions was fantastic. It felt so weird to have the WandaVision family come home as the Hex was coming down to say goodbye to each other after such a PROLONGED action sequence. Something was tonally off there. Schaeffer's team did a great job with the quiet stuff, but they were forced by Marvel Studios to engage in bombast and exposition during those battles which I think detracted from Wanda's journey of self-discovery and healing. And they didn't really get a chance to properly address the psychological damage that was inflicted on the residents of Westview.

Here's a quote that I found which SORT of sums up my feelings on WandaVision:

"In the end, it all rolls up in a massive battle between Wanda and the big bad and Vision and White Vision. Wanda eventually succeeds in shooting better CGI energy balls at the purple evil lady and saves the day. She then ends her fantasy and leaves, but not before Monica absolves her. Evil Hayward shows up to remind us he still exists and is evil. Oh, and Darcy and Jimmy are here doing…something. See, they totally helped and were important.

WandaVision fails for me because its all flash with no substance. The sitcom setting is used as nothing more than homage. It has nothing to say about sitcoms, either good or bad. It has nothing to say about American society through the decades. It has nothing to say about suburbia. And even worse, it doesn’t actually care about exploring Wanda as a character. Rather than actually have us explore her grief and attempts to overcome loss, it delights us with flashy homages before trying to cram in her backstory into a single episode. She is then forced to resolve her personal demons in a bloated finale accomplished purely through the use of physical force.

I will commend the finale for at least resolving the Vision fight through a speech check, but for Wanda to literally just defeat her antagonist though even better magic is just a failure in writing. Wanda trapped an entire town into her delusion, torturing their minds with her grief. She also broadcast her delusions to the entire world such that characters like Jimmy and Darcy became caught up in the ups and downs of her illusive drama. Surely a finale where she is forced to confront her delusions and trauma and come to terms with them would be more appropriate and interesting than a battle, yes? Instead, the show attempts to cram both in and in the end serves neither."

Like I said, WandaVision was EXTREMELY close to being a CLASSIC superhero show. But I think it faltered at the end not through the fault of the performers and writers, but how the MCU is structured as a whole. Still, it was a high quality and extremely successful series. I think PLENTY of people would love to watch a WandaVision movie now. And that wouldn't have been the case even a few weeks ago.

[PwrdOn]

I feel Wandavision kinda shot themselves in the foot with the finale. The first half of the series was pretty well received, it going in a different direction to most MCU projects and was able to get People who weren't interested in the MCU, interested in the show. Even through there was a sitcom style that changed up with every episode, it all felt connected thematically and through tone. It was essentially a deconstruction of TV sitcoms, and that was enjoyable to watch. It felt refreshing that they were bringing out new ideas from a franchise that honestly is getting a bit tiring. It wasn't about large epic battles, but rather a small scale story which is essentially a tragedy. Wanda is a tragic character, she has lost both her Parents and her Husband and she really feels she doesn't have anything left. She created her own fantasy World and the show was going in the direction that it was all leading to her.
The problem is, instead of pulling off that story, it got turned into the generic MCU story. They had to make a character who is essentially a mentor figure to Wanda in the comics and make her the main antagonist because they know People will flip their **** about it.

I feel if they went the full way with Wanda being the fallen Hero, it would have essentially kept more People happy. The MCU fans will enjoy it because it's setting up a conflict for Doctor Strange 2 and we know what's at stake. We understand that Wanda will become more powerful and what she's done is destructive enough.
The non-MCU fans will enjoy it because it gave them something different that didn't end with massive set pieces.
I think Marvel Studios underestimated just how successful and acclaimed those first few episodes beers going to be.
Coming into Wandavision, it felt like it was treated as more of a pilot to see if the show could become a success. It the first thing they did to kick start the new phrase and their first from their TV division. It felt like they were testing the waters to see if they can do something new and for the most part, it worked.
I'm hoping we see less of the big epic battles because those have honestly been done to death. If you keep putting them in there, they feel less special and the impact of major events like Endgame are tarnished because we've already seen this fight 100 times before.
What Marvel needs to do going forward is make more introspective works. It's what happened with the comics throughout the 80's. Marvel became a lot more critical of itself, trying to see how far they can push their characters.

The MCU has been such a license to print money for them so far, I don't know why anyone would stop doing that in favor of more character-driven stuff. This show was entertaining enough, but if you remove that MCU connection it's not something that anyone would even bother tuning into, the premise is just too odd to get into unless you know what the payoff is going to be, and we all knew what the payoff was going to be because of the comics that this show was adapted from.

[Albert1981]

Well, I think you could be right, but I have wanted to see Vision actually have a cool fight scene.

I think fewer people would be disappointed if there was more of a quiet epilogue

I think people were expecting a Vision fight scene, but after seeing what happened in the first eight episodes, it felt sort of out of place? I liked how the two of them settled it over a "THOUGHT EXPERIMENT." That was very creative on the part of the writing team. But Wanda's fight with Agatha, while visually stunning in some instances, was not really as rewarding and original. I do think Agatha's crack about Wanda's ex and boyfriend being together at the same party WAS pretty funny though.

[Frontier]

I feel Wandavision kinda shot themselves in the foot with the finale. The first half of the series was pretty well received, it going in a different direction to most MCU projects and was able to get People who weren't interested in the MCU, interested in the show. Even through there was a sitcom style that changed up with every episode, it all felt connected thematically and through tone. It was essentially a deconstruction of TV sitcoms, and that was enjoyable to watch. It felt refreshing that they were bringing out new ideas from a franchise that honestly is getting a bit tiring. It wasn't about large epic battles, but rather a small scale story which is essentially a tragedy. Wanda is a tragic character, she has lost both her Parents and her Husband and she really feels she doesn't have anything left. She created her own fantasy World and the show was going in the direction that it was all leading to her.
The problem is, instead of pulling off that story, it got turned into the generic MCU story. They had to make a character who is essentially a mentor figure to Wanda in the comics and make her the main antagonist because they know People will flip their **** about it.

I feel if they went the full way with Wanda being the fallen Hero, it would have essentially kept more People happy. The MCU fans will enjoy it because it's setting up a conflict for Doctor Strange 2 and we know what's at stake. We understand that Wanda will become more powerful and what she's done is destructive enough.
The non-MCU fans will enjoy it because it gave them something different that didn't end with massive set pieces.
I think Marvel Studios underestimated just how successful and acclaimed those first few episodes beers going to be.
Coming into Wandavision, it felt like it was treated as more of a pilot to see if the show could become a success. It the first thing they did to kick start the new phrase and their first from their TV division. It felt like they were testing the waters to see if they can do something new and for the most part, it worked.
I'm hoping we see less of the big epic battles because those have honestly been done to death. If you keep putting them in there, they feel less special and the impact of major events like Endgame are tarnished because we've already seen this fight 100 times before.
What Marvel needs to do going forward is make more introspective works. It's what happened with the comics throughout the 80's. Marvel became a lot more critical of itself, trying to see how far they can push their characters.

I think Wanda still kind of felt like a fallen hero by the end of the story.

I think people were expecting a Vision fight scene, but after seeing what happened in the first eight episodes, it felt sort of out of place? I liked how the two of them settled it over a "THOUGHT EXPERIMENT." That was very creative on the part of the writing team. But Wanda's fight with Agatha, while visually stunning in some instances, was not really as rewarding and original. I do think Agatha's crack about Wanda's ex and boyfriend being together at the same party WAS pretty funny though.

It didn't really feel out of place to me but I was expecting a Superhero fight in a Superhero show at some point.

[Albert1981]

There's a lot of people that are complaining that it was too Wanda centric for the first MCU show ever. They wanted this show to be a segue to Doctor Strange 2, but all they got was a story about Wanda. I think this will set the tone and expectations for the next series. If we're honest, white Vision and Monica Rambeau, which was the best character after Wanda, were shoved into the show as far as story telling goes, but it works when you remember "it all has to be connected." It's a Hollywood product, not an indie comic. They did good given the circumstances.

I was so happy that it was so Wanda-centric. It probably will be the only and last chance a show/movie like this could happen for her. Although I do understand the frustration of some comic book fans about Vision not playing a greater role since his mini-series was such a big inspiration for the show. But I get that it has to be connected. However, in a storytelling sense, would WandaVision have suffered that much if they removed the stunt casting and SWORD stuff from the show? I think not.

[Frontier]

I was so happy that it was so Wanda-centric. It probably will be the only and last chance a show/movie like this could happen for her. Although I do understand the frustration of some comic book fans about Vision not playing a greater role since his mini-series was such a big inspiration for the show. But I get that it has to be connected. However, in a storytelling sense, would WandaVision have suffered that much if they removed the stunt casting and SWORD stuff from the show? I think not.

I guess since Vision is still alive they could potentially do a season 2 with Scarlet Witch and White Vision.

[Albert1981]

I think Wanda still kind of felt like a fallen hero by the end of the story.

It didn't really feel out of place to me but I was expecting a Superhero fight in a Superhero show at some point.

I was just expecting those fights to be a little less PROLONGED. I mean, the Vision fight was pretty creatively settled. I hated seeing Hahn being overwhelmed by Olsen like that. I just liked Agnes so much from the earlier episodes, I felt upset that she was being done that way. I do feel bad for Hahn because she was really in her element as a nosy neighbor/psychiatrist and not as a cardboard villain spouting exposition.

[GenericUsername]

I think Wanda still kind of felt like a fallen hero by the end of the story.

It felt to me like a beginning for her. Because she hasn't had much time as a hero. And she is just finding out about her powers. And them being something divine that chose her, how to control them and about basic magic. She's still coming of age, even though she's already had her own family.

[Agent Z]

So how do you feel about the Avengers and Bruce Banner? Banner gets angry, turns into the Hulk, and people get hurt. ALL THE TIME. Not just once. The Avengers give Banner a pass, because they understand what he's going through, because they know he isn't fully in control of his actions when he does so, and quite frankly because what are you going to do about it even if you wanted to? Does that mean they don't care about the people harmed by the Hulk? Every time they try assuage Banner's guilt for turning into the beast, should they be shown spending hours chatting with Hulk survivors and being shown empathizing with them so they don't look foolish? Hell, in AoU Hulk rampages through a population center in Africa to the point that Tony calls in the Hulkbuster to stop him and yet Black Widow is ACTIVELY TURNING BANNER BACK INTO THE HULK less than an hour of screentime later for the final battle (and even does so against Banner's wishes). Are Tony and Nat foolish or any less heroic?

I think there are three points to consider.

First, the conversation was between Monica and Wanda, not Monica and Westview's residents. In terms of what you have time to show in the narrative, you let your conversation be between the characters having it. The audience knows full well that Monica cares about Westview's residents, she has spent five weeks struggling to free them from the Hex. It's not something that needed to come up during that discussion.

Second, Monica is speaking to the audience. Wanda deserves blame here, but there are naunces that should be looked at. When the moment came, Wanda did the heroic thing, even at tremendous personal cost to herself. That speaks to Wanda as a character, and was important to have called out for the audience. (Also, in recognizing that I actually think it shows Monica as perceptive and able to see more than one side of the issue, which actually shows that Monica is ideally suited for a role like Director of SWORD, for example.)

And third, in universe, what choice does Monica have? How exactly is she supposed to hold Wanda accountable? It's the Banner problem. How do you hold Banner accountable for the Hulk? Do you rail at him and scream? He'll just turn green again and you have a whole new set of problems. The best way to approach Wanda right now is as a friend, as someone who understands and empathizes. Someone who can steer Wanda towards a healthier approach, and down the road we can talk about accountability, when she's less fragile. Go too hard at Wanda right now and you run the risk of the Hex looking like a sad opening act.

You do remember that Banner's rampage in AoU was because of Wanda mind controlling him right?

[Albert1981]

I guess since Vision is still alive they could potentially do a season 2 with Scarlet Witch and White Vision.

Although I believe that it would be highly unlikely, I think a lot of MCU fans would totally be on board with that. They could drop the SWORD stuff and it would be so much fun...And weird. But since Wanda is moving on to other things in the MCU, I've read on social media that folks want to see a more "accurate" adaptation of Tom King's work starring Paul Bettany's Vision without Elizabeth Olsen's Scarlet Witch. They want the whole wacky robot family thing. I DOUBT that dark storyline would be adapted by Disney, but I think it would be quite successful if they did. However, I wouldn't want to see the Vision thrive in the MCU without the Scarlet Witch by his side.

[GenericUsername]

You do remember that Banner's rampage in AoU was because of Wanda mind controlling him right?

Unless she was always retroactively controlling him before she got into the MCU, some of that was Banner alone.

[Albert1981]

I will say that Wanda wiping away Vision's tear during their last conversation was VERY touching. I didn't expect that to happen. Such a great moment between those two. Wanda was back to being a loving wife and devoted mother at that point and I loved every minute of it! Although Hex Vision was just a memory to Wanda, I find it hard to believe he was THAT goofy before he died in Infinity War.

[GenericUsername]

I will say that Wanda wiping away Vision's tear during their last conversation was VERY touching. I didn't expect that to happen. Such a great moment between those two. Wanda was back to being a loving wife and devoted mother at that point and I loved every minute of it! Although Hex Vision was just a memory to Wanda, I find it hard to believe he was THAT goofy before he died in Infinity War.

Well being that we didn't get much of their relationship in the movies, there's no way to know how he really was around her. Most of their moments together were with major things going on in ensemble movies. I found the goofiness charming.

[Agent Z]

Unless she was always retroactively controlling him before she got into the MCU, some of that was Banner alone.

I was specifically referring to the AoU rampage.

Even before that, Banner's hulk outs were actually pretty rare, only in response to someone attacking him with lethal intent and didn't do much damage.