Wandavision

[Albert1981]

Yep i get that concern, but I don't worry so much about such bridges until their is a good amount of evidance to say so. So Far All I saw was Wanda Looking like her weird yet classic self trying to learn how to control her powers and the book was the only key she had at that moment.

So Yea I say as my philosophy, try not to be so concerned over that of which has not be concluded to happen yet, just take the best you have now and work with it while adding on as much knowledge as you can to enjoy your favorites like Wanda.

That's a pretty good philosophy. Love your positive attitude!

[CJStriker]

If they'd continue with the villain thing they'd just be giving up on any heroic arc for her. And I don't see them doing that. They seem to be just making her earn her stronger powers and title.

Yea, like we have been talking about, this while having messy points is still an arc for Wanda. Going Villian would be a retroverting her charcter not just back to the start of the WandaVision show, but much more and would make her growth and all her acceptance in losing Vision and her kids a BIG waste of time.

I don't see the MCU wanting to undercut all that work and money they put into her for something to just take it back. That is why while I get where the fear comes form, it just does not add up at all to me and this show showed us that pretty well. Tragity and unforseen storms of mistakes WAY different form Twiring the Mustache Villiany.

[Albert1981]

That one was a reportedly of him on set, so it could be true. Might not be. So anything unless it's fully confirmed should be taken with a grain of salt.

I'm just saying that Disney can't keep doing these "fakeouts" without eventually alienating audience viewers. I know Marvel Studios likes fucking with its fans, but people will eventually get tired of it. I do take those rumors with a grain of salt.

[Albert1981]

If they'd continue with the villain thing they'd just be giving up on any heroic arc for her. And I don't see them doing that. They seem to be just making her earn her stronger powers and title.

She looked pretty evil reading that book.

[ZeroBG82]

I'm just saying that Disney can't keep doing these "fakeouts" without eventually alienating audience viewers. I know Marvel Studios likes fucking with its fans, but people will eventually get tired of it. I do take those rumors with a grain of salt.

Fietro is a different beast than Charlie Cox as Matt Murdock, however. One, Cox has already played Matt in a Disney owned Marvel production, as opposed to Peters playing Quicksilver for Fox.

Secondly, Evan Peters' casting wasn't meant to be a trolling of the audience, it was meant to put the audience in the same position as Wanda. Here is somebody who doesn't look like the Pietro from AoU, but who you are willing to accept might actually be Pietro because of reasons that play on your emotions instead of your logic and so you make up reasons to accept that it actually is Pietro even when all evidence suggests it cannot be.

I absolutely get why some fans are annoyed by the way it was used, but it was actually a fairly brilliant piece of the casting suiting the writing. Part red herring, part easter egg and all the while using the audience's reactions to connect them to Wanda and her reactions.

[Ascended]

yeah but none of them are in an ancient book with a prophecy calling her the harbringer of chaos, it retroactivly makes me look at her past in the mcu, she has brought so much chaos or at the very least is always finding herself on those situations.
What if its because of who she was meant to be?

That is very much my head canon now. Makes sense to me that a chaos witch, even one who isn't aware of what she is, would subconsciously tug on that magic and twist the lines of probability around her. Maybe she's drawn to these big events or maybe they're drawn to her, but I want to believe it's been happening since the start.

I don't think there needs to be a debate. Wanda created the Hex unintentionally, via powers that are growing and which she can't fully control. Even when she realizes what she's doing, she is so drowned in her grief that she is blind to what everyone else is going through. She seemed to genuinely believe that everyone in town was steeped in a peaceful, painless dream in her Westview. Which, obviously, doesn't excuse her actions. But note that as soon as it is revealed to her the misery she has inflicted on everyone she IMMEDIATELY makes an effort to free everyone. She ultimately hesitates only because she realizes that she is going to lose her family, AGAIN. And she clearly always intends, from that moment forward, to drop the Hex and free everyone in the end. She finally overcomes her grief and is able to let go of her family only because doing so will save the people of Westview from what she has done.

Wanda is a hero. But she is also very, very dangerous. More so than she realized. The biggest takeaway for her isn't just that she needs to learn more about her powers and how to control them, but also that she can't just wallow in all the pain and trauma that she has experienced. Unlike most other people, her pain is dangerous to everyone and not just herself.

Her actions shouldn't be excused, no. Nor should the fact that it took her so long to notice the pain she was inflicting. But it IS understandable, and combined with her reaction when she finally does see just what she has done, I think that makes it forgivable. The townsfolk will definitely have scars and trauma of their own to deal with, but nobody was physically harmed. No one is saying anybody in Westview should be a Scarlet Witch fan. But as the audience I think we've seen enough to conclude that Wanda is a good person who made a terrible mistake, and not a villain.

This is very well said. Bravo.

And while yes, Wanda has done something terrible here, so has most everyone else. Widow has all that red in her ledger. Cap broke America's top intelligence agency. Tony created Ultron and is largely responsible for breaking the Avengers. Thor blew up his entire planet! They all had their reasons, but they've all done things or made mistakes that ruined tons of lives. Wanda's mistake is no worse than most of their's, and while she needs to atone for her sins in West View, she doesn't deserve utter condemnation either. There was no malice in her actions, only grief.

I didn't really see the point of him ruthlessly killing all those people

One main point of the five year gap is that everyone who's left has forgotten, in various ways, how to be heroes, or more broadly what heroism means. Except Banner anyway, who's the exception that proves the rule. Clint went over the line and became judge, jury, and executioner, killing people because they were bad but mostly because his family died and they didn't. Clint's subplot also helps give the audience a better idea of the global situation; via Scott Lang and Cap we see how things are on the street, and from Nat's Avengers we see that super villains don't seem to be a problem, while Clint's situation tells us that organized crime is still prevalent; pro sports have shut down, governments are crippled, even the climate is changing (whales in the Hudson), but organized crime? Still all over the world and going strong. The fact that Clint was able to brutally murder countless mob bosses and all their goons for five years with half the world's population gone and everything else destabilized, helps tell us the world didn't get better like Thanos promised.

[gonnagiveittoya]

Yeah, but Hawkeye made a conscious choice, and continued making that choice FOR 5 YEARS. Wanda did something inadvertently, and then let herself get blinded by overwhelming emotions. It took her, what, less than a week to realize that she was doing the wrong thing and instantly take action to attempt to remedy it?

A very generous definition of "instantly". Especially since spoilers:

Agatha is the one who actually frees them

end of spoilers

[CJStriker]

A very generous definition of "instantly". Especially since spoilers:

Agatha is the one who actually frees them

end of spoilers

Then after Wanda learns the truth about what the hex is doing to them she frees them, indeed Agatha did help free Wanda and lead to the truth so the town could be freed.

[ZeroBG82]

A very generous definition of "instantly". Especially since spoilers:

Agatha is the one who actually frees them

end of spoilers

How so? Until Agatha undoes the Hex rewriting Wanda genuinely doesn't realize that she has trapped these people in Hell. But as it dawns on her, what is the very, literally first thing she does? She begins dismantling the Hex. No questions, no hesitation. There is a brief detour when she sees the effects on Billy, Tommy and Vision, but even that is clearly not done maliciously and she is obviously on the path to undoing the Hex from that moment on.

You can absolutely be critical of Wanda for taking so long to see the truth. I think that's absolutely fair. I don't excuse, I understand. I get why she was blind, why she couldn't and maybe didn't want to let herself see it. But you can't honestly try to claim that she knowingly did anything to harm people, because that's not what was presented in the show. She absolutely did harm people, let's not beat around the bush there. But it's a heat of the moment, overwhelmed by emotions kind of situation that is so far from the choices Hawkeye made that I'm honestly flummoxed that you'd even attempt to genuinely equate the two.

[Vegeta]

A white dude goes on a rampage to murder foreign non-white gangsters in Mexico and Japan solely to find bodies he can pump through with holes is noble and tragic. But one woman, a foreign immigrant, coming in and accidentally using her abilities which doesn't kill anyone or permanently transform anything, is "future Thanos".

Well one can warp the fabric of reality with a wave of her hands, and the other... shoots arrows with a bow. Which one do think has more "Thanos" potential?

Man, they really built up Monica to be a big deal, the way she fought and clawed her way back into the hex, you think she's going to get this great big emotional moment where she talks Wanda back from the edge or something, but no. Just a big ol' commercial for Captain Marvel 2. The more I think about it, the more annoyed I get.

[CJStriker]

She looked pretty evil reading that book.

ACTUALLY....that looked like another Referance to Wanda from the Busiek Era of Avenger, Vol. 3, Issue #13!

This is Just Wanda being her Strangely Lovely Meditating Self!

[Albert1981]

ACTUALLY....that looked like another Referance to Wanda from the Busiek Era of Avenger, Vol. 3, Issue #13!

This is Just Wanda being her Strangely Lovely Meditating Self!

I definitely need to check my eyesight then!

[Albert1981]

Fietro is a different beast than Charlie Cox as Matt Murdock, however. One, Cox has already played Matt in a Disney owned Marvel production, as opposed to Peters playing Quicksilver for Fox.

Secondly, Evan Peters' casting wasn't meant to be a trolling of the audience, it was meant to put the audience in the same position as Wanda. Here is somebody who doesn't look like the Pietro from AoU, but who you are willing to accept might actually be Pietro because of reasons that play on your emotions instead of your logic and so you make up reasons to accept that it actually is Pietro even when all evidence suggests it cannot be.

I absolutely get why some fans are annoyed by the way it was used, but it was actually a fairly brilliant piece of the casting suiting the writing. Part red herring, part easter egg and all the while using the audience's reactions to connect them to Wanda and her reactions.

Funny, I always considered Marvel Studios and Marvel TV to be entirely separate entities. And Cox's Daredevil belonged to Netflix. I never watched the show, but that's my understanding. I guess your point of view regarding Fietro makes quite a bit of sense. I still found the decision didn't make a huge impact on the series though. I like the misdirections, red herrings and even the flat-out lies that tricked audiences members throughout the show. I just think people are going to get weary if Marvel Studios does more Mandarin, Mysterio and Quicksilver style twists. Even though I thought all three of these fakeouts worked to a certain extent.

[starduck]

I doubt Wanda will be the next Thanos, I think she might be antagonize Doctor Strange for a bit while looking for her babies though.

[CosmiComic]

Mysterio was always meant to be evil. More people would be annoyed if he wasn't.