Wandavision

[CJStriker]

Tony was already planning on making Ultron, even the name well before that. All Wanda's vision did was confirm stuff he was already in the process of doing or going about it. She didn't change his mind or make him do anything he wasn't capable of doing by himself. All she did was prove that Tony Stark is incapable of telling the difference between saving the world and destroying it.



That one is on her, not gonna lie.



The Lagos situation happened because Cap got distracted by Brock who unleashed a grenade that would have killed Cap and others and she had to reroute it very quickly away. It was an accident but done to protect her commander, and Cap takes full responsibility for that, and for letting Crossbones distract him that way.



She left Vision unprotected to go out and save Natasha and Okoye, and others fighting an invasion. Would you rather she left them to die?

In either case it didn't matter. Her abandoning Vision wouldn't have stopped Thanos. What would have stopped Thanos was Starlord keeping his chill and Thor going for the head.

^^^Well Said, Nicely Broken Down Post!

[CosmiComic]

I thought the Mind Stone made Ultron?

[ZeroBG82]

I'd just like to say, for the record, that I'm a fan of Wanda and feel like she doesn't often get a fair shake, but here I think they could've done a better job with her story so we're not (once again) debating Wanda's morality for the umpteenth time.

I don't think there needs to be a debate. Wanda created the Hex unintentionally, via powers that are growing and which she can't fully control. Even when she realizes what she's doing, she is so drowned in her grief that she is blind to what everyone else is going through. She seemed to genuinely believe that everyone in town was steeped in a peaceful, painless dream in her Westview. Which, obviously, doesn't excuse her actions. But note that as soon as it is revealed to her the misery she has inflicted on everyone she IMMEDIATELY makes an effort to free everyone. She ultimately hesitates only because she realizes that she is going to lose her family, AGAIN. And she clearly always intends, from that moment forward, to drop the Hex and free everyone in the end. She finally overcomes her grief and is able to let go of her family only because doing so will save the people of Westview from what she has done.

Wanda is a hero. But she is also very, very dangerous. More so than she realized. The biggest takeaway for her isn't just that she needs to learn more about her powers and how to control them, but also that she can't just wallow in all the pain and trauma that she has experienced. Unlike most other people, her pain is dangerous to everyone and not just herself.

Her actions shouldn't be excused, no. Nor should the fact that it took her so long to notice the pain she was inflicting. But it IS understandable, and combined with her reaction when she finally does see just what she has done, I think that makes it forgivable. The townsfolk will definitely have scars and trauma of their own to deal with, but nobody was physically harmed. No one is saying anybody in Westview should be a Scarlet Witch fan. But as the audience I think we've seen enough to conclude that Wanda is a good person who made a terrible mistake, and not a villain.

[CJStriker]

I agree with a lot of your comments. And I did think the writers and producers did a great job of telling Wanda's story in detail. But I wish they could have utilized Agatha in a different manner. People who criticize the MCU for having no stakes and/or consequences in its movies and shows have been given lots of ammo by how this show was concluded, unfortunately. I think the showrunners would have done things differently if they didn't have to work under the constraints of a shared cinematic universe.

I think this shows that with the stakes being as they where their are consequences to not knowing your powers or how your powers can react just by going threw things normal humans go threw in their lives that can haven unforseen consequences. It shows that if you don't take charge to make a change after the events are corrected then thier are not consequences and changes and the story stays stale. This was a showing on when lessons like this are learned they are not just some quote to go by, but are lesson that a needed to be take action upon to show you as a charcter, in this case Wanda, is learning to grow form her mistakes she never ment to make, but still takes the oath to fix it and make sure she can't hurt anyone again, aka she will learn to control this power.

So that consequences do happen by making thoses in the story change cause of them.

[CJStriker]

I don't think there needs to be a debate. Wanda created the Hex unintentionally, via powers that are growing and which she can't fully control. Even when she realizes what she's doing, she is so drowned in her grief that she is blind to what everyone else is going through. She seemed to genuinely believe that everyone in town was steeped in a peaceful, painless dream in her Westview. Which, obviously, doesn't excuse her actions. But note that as soon as it is revealed to her the misery she has inflicted on everyone she IMMEDIATELY makes an effort to free everyone. She ultimately hesitates only because she realizes that she is going to lose her family, AGAIN. And she clearly always intends, from that moment forward, to drop the Hex and free everyone in the end. She finally overcomes her grief and is able to let go of her family only because doing so will save the people of Westview from what she has done.

Wanda is a hero. But she is also very, very dangerous. More so than she realized. The biggest takeaway for her isn't just that she needs to learn more about her powers and how to control them, but also that she can't just wallow in all the pain and trauma that she has experienced. Unlike most other people, her pain is dangerous to everyone and not just herself.

Her actions shouldn't be excused, no. Nor should the fact that it took her so long to notice the pain she was inflicting. But it IS understandable, and combined with her reaction when she finally does see just what she has done, I think that makes it forgivable. The townsfolk will definitely have scars and trauma of their own to deal with, but nobody was physically harmed. No one is saying anybody in Westview should be a Scarlet Witch fan. But as the audience I think we've seen enough to conclude that Wanda is a good person who made a terrible mistake, and not a villain.

^^^Excellent, VERY Well Put, you took the words right out of My Mind and Mouth, You put it better then I ever could, Thank You for this ZeroBG82!

[Drops Of Venus]

I don't think there needs to be a debate. Wanda created the Hex unintentionally, via powers that are growing and which she can't fully control. Even when she realizes what she's doing, she is so drowned in her grief that she is blind to what everyone else is going through. She seemed to genuinely believe that everyone in town was steeped in a peaceful, painless dream in her Westview. Which, obviously, doesn't excuse her actions. But note that as soon as it is revealed to her the misery she has inflicted on everyone she IMMEDIATELY makes an effort to free everyone. She ultimately hesitates only because she realizes that she is going to lose her family, AGAIN. And she clearly always intends, from that moment forward, to drop the Hex and free everyone in the end. She finally overcomes her grief and is able to let go of her family only because doing so will save the people of Westview from what she has done.

Wanda is a hero. But she is also very, very dangerous. More so than she realized. The biggest takeaway for her isn't just that she needs to learn more about her powers and how to control them, but also that she can't just wallow in all the pain and trauma that she has experienced. Unlike most other people, her pain is dangerous to everyone and not just herself.

Her actions shouldn't be excused, no. Nor should the fact that it took her so long to notice the pain she was inflicting. But it IS understandable, and combined with her reaction when she finally does see just what she has done, I think that makes it forgivable. The townsfolk will definitely have scars and trauma of their own to deal with, but nobody was physically harmed. No one is saying anybody in Westview should be a Scarlet Witch fan. But as the audience I think we've seen enough to conclude that Wanda is a good person who made a terrible mistake, and not a villain.

I was going to reply to a bunch of things, but... yeah. This right here. You summed it up pretty nicely how I feel, and what I think was the intention of the writers of the show. I honestly don't get why there's even so much debate about this here. It doesn't seem very hard to understand to me. Then again, maybe I have my own bias as a Scarlet Witch fan.

I wonder if there's gonna be this much debate around Clint Barton's morality and ethics once his show drops and he is inevitably portrayed as the hero, even though he is a mass murderer who got away with it and had to face zero repercussions or consequences for his actions.

[GenericUsername]

also wanda's never becoming a mutant again thanks to this show, so its a 10 out of 10 for me in "giving ferro long lasting joy <3"

I wish her hair was brown because she looks like the scarlet shakira at some angles

Lol, this made me giggle.

[GenericUsername]

yeah but none of them are in an ancient book with a prophecy calling her the harbringer of chaos, it retroactivly makes me look at her past in the mcu, she has brought so much chaos or at the very least is always finding herself on those situations.
What if its because of who she was meant to be?

It could be or maybe signify to her that she needs training to control that element of her powers. And that was what the 616 had her do until they forgot that ever happened. :P But I think Strange will teach her some traditional magic and how to control magic.

[Ferro]

Lol, this made me giggle.

Im waiting to see if her scarlet hips dont tell scarlet lies

[Albert1981]

I think this shows that with the stakes being as they where their are consequences to not knowing your powers or how your powers can react just by going threw things normal humans go threw in their lives that can haven unforseen consequences. It shows that if you don't take charge to make a change after the events are corrected then thier are not consequences and changes and the story stays stale. This was a showing on when lessons like this are learned they are not just some quote to go by, but are lesson that a needed to be take action upon to show you as a charcter, in this case Wanda, is learning to grow form her mistakes she never ment to make, but still takes the oath to fix it and make sure she can't hurt anyone again, aka she will learn to control this power.

So that consequences do happen by making thoses in the story change cause of them.

I agree and concur with your comments. Hopefully Wanda will grow and learn from her mistakes. She's still a good person I believe. As I said before, I don't care that ninety percent of my theories didn't pan out, the show didn't fully live up to its potential for me because it failed to actually adhere to its premise. Instead, it went to the tried and true Marvel formula by having our protagonist shoot energy balls at the evil version of herself all the while setting up a bunch of different films or shows. You know, everything other than purely focusing on our character dealing with their grief and the trouble they have caused. I was dismayed with the conclusion of the story, and not because it didn't have Mephisto or Dr. Strange show up. And the series was THIS close to achieving the goals I just mentioned. WandaVision was already the most watched TV show in the world starting a couple of weeks ago, I don't think audiences would have minded if the show ended without a huge CGI battle. They could have used the last forty minutes of WandaVision to examine some moral and ethical issues and I think that would have been totally groundbreaking in the superhero genre...And I would have been so proud that Wanda was part of that.

[CosmiComic]

I was going to reply to a bunch of things, but... yeah. This right here. You summed it up pretty nicely how I feel, and what I think was the intention of the writers of the show. I honestly don't get why there's even so much debate about this here. It doesn't seem very hard to understand to me. Then again, maybe I have my own bias as a Scarlet Witch fan.

I wonder if there's gonna be this much debate around Clint Barton's morality and ethics once his show drops and he is inevitably portrayed as the hero, even though he is a mass murderer who got away with it and had to face zero repercussions or consequences for his actions.

I didn't really see the point of him ruthlessly killing all those people

[CJStriker]

I didn't really see the point of him ruthlessly killing all those people

The Way that came across to me in endgame is that WHY did so many innocent people, but mostly his family had to die but all these Criminals, Drug Lords and Gangsters we allowed to live?! So he went out and killed them to make the world even and have them pay for in his eyes their crimes and the crime of not being judge by the snap, that was my take.

It is not a defense of his actiong, just how I viewed it.

[Albert1981]

The MCU rogues gallery needs a major shot in the arm. And fast.

[CJStriker]

I agree and concur with your comments. Hopefully Wanda will grow and learn from her mistakes. She's still a good person I believe. As I said before, I don't care that ninety percent of my theories didn't pan out, the show didn't fully live up to its potential for me because it failed to actually adhere to its premise. Instead, it went to the tried and true Marvel formula by having our protagonist shoot energy balls at the evil version of herself all the while setting up a bunch of different films or shows. You know, everything other than purely focusing on our character dealing with their grief and the trouble they have caused. I was dismayed with the conclusion of the story, and not because it didn't have Mephisto or Dr. Strange show up. And the series was THIS close to achieving the goals I just mentioned. WandaVision was already the most watched TV show in the world starting a couple of weeks ago, I don't think audiences would have minded if the show ended without a huge CGI battle. They could have used the last forty minutes of WandaVision to examine some moral and ethical issues and I think that would have been totally groundbreaking in the superhero genre...And I would have been so proud that Wanda was part of that.

I indeed get where you are coming from Albert1981, Honeslty I feel that ZeroBG82 below has said it better then I really ever could on how this should all really be view, espicaly by Wanda Fan like us.

Please Read it, You we get where I and I others have been trying to get across, but ZeroBG82 does it right!

I don't think there needs to be a debate. Wanda created the Hex unintentionally, via powers that are growing and which she can't fully control. Even when she realizes what she's doing, she is so drowned in her grief that she is blind to what everyone else is going through. She seemed to genuinely believe that everyone in town was steeped in a peaceful, painless dream in her Westview. Which, obviously, doesn't excuse her actions. But note that as soon as it is revealed to her the misery she has inflicted on everyone she IMMEDIATELY makes an effort to free everyone. She ultimately hesitates only because she realizes that she is going to lose her family, AGAIN. And she clearly always intends, from that moment forward, to drop the Hex and free everyone in the end. She finally overcomes her grief and is able to let go of her family only because doing so will save the people of Westview from what she has done.

Wanda is a hero. But she is also very, very dangerous. More so than she realized. The biggest takeaway for her isn't just that she needs to learn more about her powers and how to control them, but also that she can't just wallow in all the pain and trauma that she has experienced. Unlike most other people, her pain is dangerous to everyone and not just herself.

Her actions shouldn't be excused, no. Nor should the fact that it took her so long to notice the pain she was inflicting. But it IS understandable, and combined with her reaction when she finally does see just what she has done, I think that makes it forgivable. The townsfolk will definitely have scars and trauma of their own to deal with, but nobody was physically harmed. No one is saying anybody in Westview should be a Scarlet Witch fan. But as the audience I think we've seen enough to conclude that Wanda is a good person who made a terrible mistake, and not a villain.

[CosmiComic]

The Way that came across to me in endgame is that WHY did so many innocent people, but mostly his family had to die but all these Criminals, Drug Lords and Gangsters we allowed to live?! So he went out and killed them to make the world even and have them pay for in his eyes their crimes and the crime of not being judge by the snap, that was my take.

It is not a defense of his actiong, just how I viewed it.

I see. It still felt like an odd detour to me