Wandavision

[Oberon]

Yeah, but characters shouldn’t be judged on their source material. If we made all the superheroes carbon copies of their comic book counterparts then characters like the Guardians of the Galaxy would be ****.

But you judged too. It's okay. All characters have a 'source' to their being; I'm not really judging.

"It's a matter of taste, not opinion", said my dear departed friend some years ago.

[Oberon]

Oh sure, we should wait. But I'm just saying I don't think Monica has cracked a smile once since Episode 4. I mean in that interview she's very warm and affable. I think it would make her character more interesting if she kept that charm. That's just my opinion.

I sure hope you're not like that in real life; telling random women to smile. Or they should. It's actually rude in real life.

[Oberon]

But Cap was smiling and joking in Endgame! So was Ant-Man. And both lost people they loved (or so they thought) in the previous Avengers movie. I distinctly remember them both quipping about Captain America's "ass" a LOT in that movie. And Clint was smiling and joking with Natasha when they went back to Vormir and this was AFTER his family disappeared in the Snap. The surviving Avengers seemed pretty chill about him murdering a bunch of dudes too. And let's not forget Korg "consoling" Thor after the destruction of Asgard: “The damage is not too bad. As long as the foundations are still strong, we can rebuild this place. It will become a haven for all peoples and aliens of the universe.” But just then, the ruins of Asgard explode and Korg adds, “Oof. Now, those foundations are gone. Sorry.” Thor seemed pretty chill about that too. So the MCU has set precedent by using levity to deal with trauma. Wanda's definitely using humor to deal with her emotional problems (Episode 7). Monica is not.

In trying to be more explaining, the context of TV shows and Movies is different.

I mentioned this much earlier. TV shows have a conceit of challenging you to keep watching. So they never play their cards up front.

Would we watch Family Feud if Steve Harvey tells the answer but still asks the question?

TV shows like this one are strongly in the Soap Opera context (this is actually, really, truly [please believe me!] very standard for most serialized story telling; comics books, soap operas and any continuing characters - even James Bond at times)

Characters get boring if they're always the same type. So they change over times, not always each and every single role and in no particular order. This may not apply to each and every character, but generally:

Abuser
Abused
Redemptionist

that is all. Your main/major characters will move through these roles, though lesser important ones - red shirts, others, may not or in the same way. Character 'arcs'.

So with Monica, we're getting a different story than - Avengers Endgame, which was a culmination of many movies and related plots.
Movies move towards iconic moments - Cap smiling when Mjolnir flies into his hand or when he says 'assemble'.

TV shows move slower; it is a convention you have to understand. Or hate or love. You really have to accept it, more than the others.

The Moniceraldine character you want more of, may not really exist; it was a plot convention.

[Fokken]

Is there a point to all this misery?

Yes. There is.

[gonnagiveittoya]

Didn't Vision brag in that first episode of being incapable of forgetting? .

Yes, but we know now that either Wanda or whatever brought him back wiped his memories of life before Westview. Having a computer brain probably won't stop magic.

[Oberon]

Yes. There is.

Marvel does all kinds of movies and some liken them to the allegory, type stories of way long ago. Greek epic myths even.

so yes... tragedy is a part of that. Culture reflects this, and Wanda's story clearly has always had a sense of tragedy.

*It's the way she's writ*

[Albert1981]

Depression isn't something a person can help. They are aware people love them. It's a disorder for a reason. You can't simply reason a way out of it. Her taking medicine is her acknowledging her depression. Like I said, she already showed she cared about her kids. You are stating falsehoods to be unfair and no offense but really a debbie downer about this show while saying you want it to be light-hearted. And all that makes no sense. It's taking her through a journey that is reasonable for everything that she's been through. And has been pretty humane and sympathetic towards her. The darker tones might not personally be your cup of tea, but that doesn't make the show bad. You've just been so negative of it from the start, even when it had the happier moments.

I am enjoying the show, and I do actually appreciate what it is trying to do. It's VERY risky and I think we can all safely say that it's a challenging series. You're right, I'm a bit of a debbie downer because WandaVision has been a downer. Even the humor fits into that mold. At first I thought it was just me, but don't you find the jokes being made are sort of "false" and "artificial", and the writers of this series are totally doing that on purpose? This is not the Gunn/Waititi/Whedon humor that I'm used to where there's no hidden meaning behind it. I am very understanding about mental illness. I think stigmatizing it is wrong and it should be treated the same as physical disabilities. I also think it is good to talk about these issues instead of bottling up these things inside. I just feel sorry that there are so many people in the world who are suffering in silence because they don't have access to medication and therapy. And that goes for people who endured this since the dawn of human civilization. I just feel it's weird that superhero action adventure movies and shows would be tackling these subjects. I mean, there are PLENTY of movies and shows in other genres who can deal with this in FAR greater detail. Why this one? It's a bit of a downer to me, yes. That just takes away from my joy in watching it. Vision and Wanda are very unhappy characters in the comic books, I was hoping that the MCU would avoid some of that stuff in their portrayals of them on screen.

[Albert1981]

Yeah, Albert1981 it seems like you aren't discussing in good faith in relation to the actual facts of the matter. At this point.

Maybe I'm missing something. Judging by the comments here I probably am! I'm just saying I'm not thrilled with some of the direction the MCU is taking. They're introducing darker and more mature themes which I had hoped they would avoid. We already have so many real-life problems, why should that stuff bleed into the movies/shows which are meant to purely entertain us, you know? It's not just WandaVision I'm worried about. I mean, we're gonna get drug dealers in Spider-Man 3? Clint's probably gotten divorced too. Although I am pleased that Hawkeye will show people that deaf people can be heroes too. I consider Thor: Ragnarok to be the pinnacle of all superhero movies. And I want the tone and feel of that film to be preserved in Thor 4. But now I'm hearing that Love & Thunder will be dealing with Jane's cancer story (and I absolutely think cancer should be handled with care and sensitivity in the MCU. They did a great job of it in WandaVision). If that's the case, Thor 4 CAN'T be a funny movie. These stories are downers. Do audiences really want to watch these kinds of stories?

[Albert1981]

But you judged too. It's okay. All characters have a 'source' to their being; I'm not really judging.

"It's a matter of taste, not opinion", said my dear departed friend some years ago.

Yeah, I must admit that sounded pretty hypocritical of me. Sorry about your friend.

[Albert1981]

I sure hope you're not like that in real life; telling random women to smile. Or they should. It's actually rude in real life.

I would never say that to women in real life. I just think female superheroes should have just as much fun fighting bad guys/gals as the dudes do!

[Albert1981]

In trying to be more explaining, the context of TV shows and Movies is different.

I mentioned this much earlier. TV shows have a conceit of challenging you to keep watching. So they never play their cards up front.

Would we watch Family Feud if Steve Harvey tells the answer but still asks the question?

TV shows like this one are strongly in the Soap Opera context (this is actually, really, truly [please believe me!] very standard for most serialized story telling; comics books, soap operas and any continuing characters - even James Bond at times)

Characters get boring if they're always the same type. So they change over times, not always each and every single role and in no particular order. This may not apply to each and every character, but generally:

Abuser
Abused
Redemptionist

that is all. Your main/major characters will move through these roles, though lesser important ones - red shirts, others, may not or in the same way. Character 'arcs'.

So with Monica, we're getting a different story than - Avengers Endgame, which was a culmination of many movies and related plots.
Movies move towards iconic moments - Cap smiling when Mjolnir flies into his hand or when he says 'assemble'.

TV shows move slower; it is a convention you have to understand. Or hate or love. You really have to accept it, more than the others.

The Moniceraldine character you want more of, may not really exist; it was a plot convention.

Oh, you bring up some excellent points. I never thought about things that way. For me, I watched shows like Star Trek, the Twilight Zone, Quantum Leap and even Touched by an Angel. Most episodes were standalones so I didn't have to watch them all to get what was going on.

[Albert1981]

Yes. There is.

It just feels like torture and punishment to me at this point. I'm not enjoying that.

[Albert1981]

Yes, but we know now that either Wanda or whatever brought him back wiped his memories of life before Westview. Having a computer brain probably won't stop magic.

Good point. I never thought of that.

[Albert1981]

I think the show is trying to tackle TOO many stories at once. Take for example that BRUTAL argument Wanda and Vision had in Episode 5. I've never seen anything like that in a superhero film/show. To me they were kind of diving into issues like spousal emotional abuse and I thought that was really mature for a Disney product. It was very engaging and I kind of enjoyed it. But ever since then, Wanda hasn't been the same person. It's like she's turned into somebody else. I wish the show could have pursued the aftermath of that fight a little bit more, but then we got the surprise Quicksilver reveal. Then we had the next episode of Pietro fucking toying with Wanda's emotions and messing with her kids. Which was very intriguing, but after she blasted him that was not pursued EITHER. In the last episode, the show went ALL in on Wanda's depression. Even so far as letting audiences know that she wasn't even being honest with herself let alone other people when she kept insisting that she was "fine". But then we had the Agatha reveal. I just feel the show's use of sudden reveals at the end of each episode TOOK AWAY discussion about the things which were featured earlier in them. People talked about Pietro and Agatha after the revelations about them, but now nobody's really talking about Wanda's mental and emotional state as much. And trust me, that's not a comfortable subject to talk about. But if the show's gonna go THERE, then let's focus on that.

[Oberon]

Oh, you bring up some excellent points. I never thought about things that way. For me, I watched shows like Star Trek, the Twilight Zone, Quantum Leap and even Touched by an Angel. Most episodes were standalones so I didn't have to watch them all to get what was going on.

I appreciate your recent comments. And I'm sorry if I was overbearing myself.
I think superheroes became 'darker themed' in the comics quite a while ago and I'm going to say it was mostly that Dark Knight and Wolverine stories in the '80s and/ or '90s. So 'dark' sells, pretty much.

And yeah it may seem that there is a lot of depression type stories. But it does sell. What could be more depressing that Infinity War with everyone dusting, including Wanda.

I'm enjoying the ride. Pretty sure there are surprises I will enjoy. I want Agatha to not be done with, but we will see. If Agatha is more like her comic counterpart, than after this, if she becomes a more credible characters, she could be recast by an older looking Witchy woman, if Hahn didn't want or get that offer. I'd be okay with her comedic stance, because it nuances her evil. Delightful. Thanks for sharing!