Wandavision

[fin5]

I'll be honest the first episode bored me, now I've read this gets better so i'll stick with it for now.

you can't Judge a show on 1 episode

[Albert1981]

I wouldn't say thirty. I'd just throw away the Byrne and Bendis stuff personally. If they cared about her at all they would have reset her, but they are all to happy to keep her as the universe's pariah for some reason.

I just don't think a lot of Wanda's stories after 1990 are all that memorable (in my opinion). Her solo stuff was pretty interesting and fun though. Some of the Busiek work was pretty engaging as well. But I kinda forgot a lot about it. The Englehart years were great. I just feel things went downhill for her in many respects during those years. I personally wish they never happened. Seems like the MCU is skipping a lot of the 90s part of her history as well. Vision's stories were even less compelling in my opinion during that period. I liked how Marvel revamped his character in 2015-2016 though. The MCU seems to appreciate that as well.

[GenericUsername]

I just don't think a lot of Wanda's stories after 1990 are all that memorable (in my opinion). Her solo stuff was pretty interesting and fun though. Some of the Busiek work was pretty engaging as well. But I kinda forgot a lot about it. The Englehart years were great. I just feel things went downhill for her in many respects during those years. I personally wish they never happened. Seems like the MCU is skipping a lot of the 90s part of her history as well. Vision's stories were even less compelling in my opinion during that period. I liked how Marvel revamped his character in 2015-2016 though. The MCU seems to appreciate that as well.

I think the Busiek and Red Zone stuff is very memorable. Busiek's being one of the most celebrated Avengers runs ever.

[Ascended]

At the beginning, sure she had a hard time with the heroic conclusion. Wanda has had a lot of growth since then. And even Liz seemed confused about people thinking she's gonna be a villain here. Because a lot has changed.

She has, and I'm not saying she hasn't. But Wanda does have a habit, even now, of trying to run away from her problems. We saw it in Civil War when she willingly allowed herself to be taken out of the conversation and put on house arrest, and in Infinity War when her first instinct is to run rather than confront the Black Order.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing her at all and I actually appreciate having a hero who doesn't naturally, instantly gravitate to that selfless, self-sacrificing mindset and says "killer robots are attacking us and the city is a giant flying bomb and this is scary and I just wanna hide under this table until it's over" before finding their better angels and doing what has to be done. And none of this compares to HoM and the comics where she went full on banana crazy pants; I'm just saying that within the framework of the MCU I can see Wanda not wanting to leave West View and maybe putting up a fight to stay there, even if it's the wrong call. And who could blame her? She's got a husband and family in that place while in the real world Vision is dead (far as we know).

As for the pacing, I feel like a lot of these complaints are kinda silly. We're *two* weeks in. That's it. Barely a third of the way through the series. How many mystery stories have you read where everything was explained and spoon fed to you within the first Act? We've already learned plenty about what's happening here, we just haven't gotten definitive end game answers yet, and we shouldn't. Now, I get that the old school sit com thing doesn't appeal to everyone and I'm honestly not a huge fan of those either, outside of I Love Lucy, but the pacing is only slow compared to the MCU films where everything happens all at once with a quip and explosion. MCU fans aren't used to a slow burn mystery, and this new tv format with weekly episodes is new too, which makes things feel even slower. But everyone needs to adjust their expectations here; we're not dealing with an action-adventure-comedy movie where everything is laid out in the first twenty minutes and then it's all punching and jokes, we're dealing with a episodic mystery/thriller riffing on classic television history. We shouldn't be mad at the orange because it isn't an apple. If you don't like oranges that's all well and good, but don't shame the orange for not being the fruit of your choice.

I think I read that Bettney (spelling?) said the last few episodes are more "classic" MCU where everything will be tons of action and stuff blowing up, so that'll be fun and more familiar, but let's try to enjoy the ride and take our time getting there, yeah?

[Albert1981]

There's no indication that the timeslot was because of the studio. It was done to fit in the time sitcoms typically were/are. Also, I think people are plenty engaged; there's a new speculation on my twitter practically on the clock.

Honest question, no judgment: do you typically enjoy older sitcoms? Because that seems to be the major deciding point for people.

I don't mind them and even enjoy them to a certain degree, but I like the more modern stuff. Particularly between 1980 and 2000. Those were the sitcoms I grew up on so I'm just more familiar with them. I even remember specific jokes from them. Like when Will Smith asked himself in the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air if he was more obsessed with breasts and thighs than Colonel Sanders ever was. That joke is still funny decades later. So I'm definitely not the audience Marvel Studios was going for in the first three episodes. My dad loves the Partridge Family though.

I'm engaged in the show. I like the series thus far. And I understand sitcoms come in usually under half an hour in length traditionally. But the sitcoms that I watched in the past told their stories WITHIN that time frame for each episode. So I didn't have to wait to find out what the plot was for each episode for very long. WandaVision so far is like having three episodes of telling jokes and gags without much plot development at all. It just feels weird to me. I would have preferred the six one hour episode each approach.

[Albert1981]

I think the Busiek and Red Zone stuff is very memorable. Busiek's being one of the most celebrated Avengers runs ever.

I was more of a casual reader then, so I wasn't too familiar with the Avengers mythos at that time. Busiek was a great Avengers writer and his work was great. I definitely remember that. But do you think the MCU's gonna use any of Busiek's material for WandaVision? Maybe the chaos magic stuff? I dunno. I think they're much more likely to rely on Robinson's solo when it comes to magical "exposition" for this particular series. I could be wrong though.

[Albert1981]

She has, and I'm not saying she hasn't. But Wanda does have a habit, even now, of trying to run away from her problems. We saw it in Civil War when she willingly allowed herself to be taken out of the conversation and put on house arrest, and in Infinity War when her first instinct is to run rather than confront the Black Order.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing her at all and I actually appreciate having a hero who doesn't naturally, instantly gravitate to that selfless, self-sacrificing mindset and says "killer robots are attacking us and the city is a giant flying bomb and this is scary and I just wanna hide under this table until it's over" before finding their better angels and doing what has to be done. And none of this compares to HoM and the comics where she went full on banana crazy pants; I'm just saying that within the framework of the MCU I can see Wanda not wanting to leave West View and maybe putting up a fight to stay there, even if it's the wrong call. And who could blame her? She's got a husband and family in that place while in the real world Vision is dead (far as we know).

As for the pacing, I feel like a lot of these complaints are kinda silly. We're *two* weeks in. That's it. Barely a third of the way through the series. How many mystery stories have you read where everything was explained and spoon fed to you within the first Act? We've already learned plenty about what's happening here, we just haven't gotten definitive end game answers yet, and we shouldn't. Now, I get that the old school sit com thing doesn't appeal to everyone and I'm honestly not a huge fan of those either, outside of I Love Lucy, but the pacing is only slow compared to the MCU films where everything happens all at once with a quip and explosion. MCU fans aren't used to a slow burn mystery, and this new tv format with weekly episodes is new too, which makes things feel even slower. But everyone needs to adjust their expectations here; we're not dealing with an action-adventure-comedy movie where everything is laid out in the first twenty minutes and then it's all punching and jokes, we're dealing with a episodic mystery/thriller riffing on classic television history. We shouldn't be mad at the orange because it isn't an apple. If you don't like oranges that's all well and good, but don't shame the orange for not being the fruit of your choice.

I think I read that Bettney (spelling?) said the last few episodes are more "classic" MCU where everything will be tons of action and stuff blowing up, so that'll be fun and more familiar, but let's try to enjoy the ride and take our time getting there, yeah?

I'm not a fan of dumb explosions, using punching and kicking to solve problems, heroes battling faceless CGI armies, and villains who play with their moustaches while plotting to take over or destroy the world. Which is what the MCU has been all about to a certain extent. Violence does not entertain me. I like protagonists who deal with tough situations using their intelligence and compassion. Wanda and Vision to a remarkable degree have been doing that in the movies, and I enjoy it very much indeed. I LIKE the family vibe of WandaVision. But I would like to have SOME idea of what the hell is going on? I get they want to do a slow burn, but I feel the show doesn't need to explain that things are not right in Westview in a redundant way. I'm happy to see the plot has moved forward at the end of episode three and I'm expecting more revelations to occur shortly. I just don't think the series should repeat what they did in the first three episodes in the next three.

[LordUltimus]

I don't mind them and even enjoy them to a certain degree, but I like the more modern stuff. Particularly between 1980 and 2000. Those were the sitcoms I grew up on so I'm just more familiar with them. I even remember specific jokes from them. Like when Will Smith asked himself in the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air if he was more obsessed with breasts and thighs than Colonel Sanders ever was. That joke is still funny decades later. So I'm definitely not the audience Marvel Studios was going for in the first three episodes. My dad loves the Partridge Family though.

I'm engaged in the show. I like the series thus far. And I understand sitcoms come in usually under half an hour in length traditionally. But the sitcoms that I watched in the past told their stories WITHIN that time frame for each episode. So I didn't have to wait to find out what the plot was for each episode for very long. WandaVision so far is like having three episodes of telling jokes and gags without much plot development at all. It just feels weird to me. I would have preferred the six one hour episode each approach.

Technically, each episode does tell a complete plot. The first one has the dinner party, the second one has the talent show, the third has the pregnancy. The mystery is the B-plot, not the A-plot.

[LordUltimus]

I'm not a fan of dumb explosions, using punching and kicking to solve problems, heroes battling faceless CGI armies, and villains who play with their moustaches while plotting to take over or destroy the world. Which is what the MCU has been all about to a certain extent. Violence does not entertain me. I like protagonists who deal with tough situations using their intelligence and compassion. Wanda and Vision to a remarkable degree have been doing that in the movies, and I enjoy it very much indeed. I LIKE the family vibe of WandaVision. But I would like to have SOME idea of what the hell is going on? I get they want to do a slow burn, but I feel the show doesn't need to explain that things are not right in Westview in a redundant way. I'm happy to see the plot has moved forward at the end of episode three and I'm expecting more revelations to occur shortly. I just don't think the series should repeat what they did in the first three episodes in the next three.

I don't believe they will repeat what they did. It's a nine-episode show, the first three episodes were the first act, so the next three will be the second act. According to interviews, we're already going to learn a lot with Episode 4.

[Oberon]

I think it has advanced quite nicely. As a person who on these pages have OFTEN talked about serialized fiction - comic books, other things - and the role of soap opera type conventions in most such serialized fiction. WandaVision is a pretty good example as we shall see.

Who is the real victim or victimizer? Who is the real redemptionist. Those 3 are the roles that writers of serial fiction use, to change / perceptions about characters, to keep viewers interested, mystified and coming back.

I'd say we've seen all three of these tropes in Wanda's character thus portrayed. I'm willing to bet that Agnes/Agatha is also classic bait and switch. She will probably be helpful to Wanda and Vision.

[GenericUsername]

I was more of a casual reader then, so I wasn't too familiar with the Avengers mythos at that time. Busiek was a great Avengers writer and his work was great. I definitely remember that. But do you think the MCU's gonna use any of Busiek's material for WandaVision? Maybe the chaos magic stuff? I dunno. I think they're much more likely to rely on Robinson's solo when it comes to magical "exposition" for this particular series. I could be wrong though.

Chaos magic and some of the stuff with Agatha. People often forget that it was that run that Wands first warped reality too.

The show has been obviously borrowing from many different eras, then putting their own spin on that.

But what canon they keep in the comics doesn't have anything to do with the show. What wrecked her was Bendis using Byrne's content. That's the one they didn't really effectively repair.

[GenericUsername]

She has, and I'm not saying she hasn't. But Wanda does have a habit, even now, of trying to run away from her problems. We saw it in Civil War when she willingly allowed herself to be taken out of the conversation and put on house arrest, and in Infinity War when her first instinct is to run rather than confront the Black Order.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing her at all and I actually appreciate having a hero who doesn't naturally, instantly gravitate to that selfless, self-sacrificing mindset and says "killer robots are attacking us and the city is a giant flying bomb and this is scary and I just wanna hide under this table until it's over" before finding their better angels and doing what has to be done. And none of this compares to HoM and the comics where she went full on banana crazy pants; I'm just saying that within the framework of the MCU I can see Wanda not wanting to leave West View and maybe putting up a fight to stay there, even if it's the wrong call. And who could blame her? She's got a husband and family in that place while in the real world Vision is dead (far as we know).

As for the pacing, I feel like a lot of these complaints are kinda silly. We're *two* weeks in. That's it. Barely a third of the way through the series. How many mystery stories have you read where everything was explained and spoon fed to you within the first Act? We've already learned plenty about what's happening here, we just haven't gotten definitive end game answers yet, and we shouldn't. Now, I get that the old school sit com thing doesn't appeal to everyone and I'm honestly not a huge fan of those either, outside of I Love Lucy, but the pacing is only slow compared to the MCU films where everything happens all at once with a quip and explosion. MCU fans aren't used to a slow burn mystery, and this new tv format with weekly episodes is new too, which makes things feel even slower. But everyone needs to adjust their expectations here; we're not dealing with an action-adventure-comedy movie where everything is laid out in the first twenty minutes and then it's all punching and jokes, we're dealing with a episodic mystery/thriller riffing on classic television history. We shouldn't be mad at the orange because it isn't an apple. If you don't like oranges that's all well and good, but don't shame the orange for not being the fruit of your choice.

I think I read that Bettney (spelling?) said the last few episodes are more "classic" MCU where everything will be tons of action and stuff blowing up, so that'll be fun and more familiar, but let's try to enjoy the ride and take our time getting there, yeah?

I don't consider her allowing herself to be arrested as running away from her problems. That's pretty much the opposite of that.

All the heroes were on the run in IW. That was plot driven because they were supposed to lose. Wanda did try to destroy the mind stone but it was remade. It wasn't until they started parting Thanos with the stones that they had any chance.

No doubt she'll fight to stay there but nothing so far confirms if she's being controlled or not and with the blue soap being mentioned, it could be that she's been put in this dream world.

I also don't get the complaints about the mystery of the show. It was pretty certain from the start that it'd be a slow burn and hopefully pay off in the end.

Wanda has always been a complex character. Her show should be no different.

[Albert1981]

Technically, each episode does tell a complete plot. The first one has the dinner party, the second one has the talent show, the third has the pregnancy. The mystery is the B-plot, not the A-plot.

Well, when you put it that way, I guess each episode does have a complete plot.

[Ascended]

I don't consider her allowing herself to be arrested as running away from her problems. That's pretty much the opposite of that.

Kind of a six of one half dozen of the other sort of thing, I think. Wanda going into house arrest is "sorta" the responsible thing to do, but at the same time it prevented her from having any say in what was happening, with these Accords that were named after her own country and an event she had a big, direct hand in. And, at least as far as her conversation with Clint went, it seemed like she was running from the problem and letting Tony handle it more than she was being accountable for her mistake in Lagos.

Wanda has always been a complex character. Her show should be no different.

Agreed. When this show was first announced it was my least anticipated of the D+ MCU shows but as we heard more about it and the whole sit com/fantasyland thing, it became the one I was most excited for and thus far I have not been disappointed. Wanda is one of those characters I've thought Marvel couldn't completely handle within a PG13 rating (same as Widow, Punisher, and a few others) but so far this show is proving me wrong, and giving us all the weird, complex, creepy, fun stuff I wanted to see from the character.

[Albert1981]

I don't believe they will repeat what they did. It's a nine-episode show, the first three episodes were the first act, so the next three will be the second act. According to interviews, we're already going to learn a lot with Episode 4.

I'm somewhat confident the second act will be different from the first. I wonder if they'll give a backstory for the villain(s) of the show during this period. Thanos became one of my favorite characters in the MCU (not just as a "villain") because the movies gave him a decent one.