Wandavision

[Daedra]

And here's a post about how Wanda "dealt" with Agatha at the end of Episode 9 that I largely agree with:

"How do you feel about Wanda inflicting that horrific punishment on Agatha at the end? Perhaps she's not as noble as you want her to be.

As others have noted, she's shown self-awareness numerous times throughout the show, and even at the end, after everything, she still chooses to repeat the same sin against Agatha.

And what is Agatha supposed to do now? She's literally homeless. Where is this fictional character meant to live? She's not from Westview.

And you may retort that a SWORD prison could not hold a powerful witch, but the writers could have pulled out any other spell out of their ass to ensure Agatha was neutralized. They chose to have Wanda repeat the assault of another person's mind and body without their consent. AGAIN. No lessons learned for Wanda.

I like the interesting discussions such a character can provoke, but I always do a double-take at people defending her actions in this story. She's a selfish character. And that's ok. It makes her interesting. Especially now that her fate is in her own hands instead of others.

What she did was inexcusable though (just like what Loki did to NY was), and claiming 'she didn't fully know' is not only a flimsy excuse, but actively betrays her character arc in the story. If she didn't fully know, then what's the point of telling this story in the first place? If she only woke up in the climax of the tale, then what even was her journey?

Every time she rewrote or manipulated her reality, from episode 1 onwards, she knew where she was and what she was doing. She chose to pretend nobody was being hurt, until Agatha's mob gave her no choice but to relent.

I look forward to other more capable writers handling her character and providing us with a more tonally and thematically consistent journey."

The show ruined the earlier wonderful dynamic between Olsen and Hahn for me.

Wanda's self awareness/sanity was coming and going through the whole show imo.

I could copypaste 10 positive opinions for every negative one but there wouldn't be any real point to it, cutting snippets of other peoples opinions around the web like you are doing and pasting them here seems like an exercise in futility, at the end of the day people feel the way they feel and arguments start to become circular.

Agatha found the trouble she was looking for, she didn't do anything particularly bad but she didn't do anything right either, she wanted more power for herself by taking advantage of wanda's mental breakdown and she got burned badly, wanda unintentionally released a reality warping weave and caused a lot of pain but she was never intent on hurting others, she's not perfect because she was not meant to be, when she realized the true consequences of her actions and the extent her own delusions made real she tried to put a stop to the hex regardless of her personal pain, the rest is history.

On my part I really liked the show and I think it provided an excellent starting platform for the development of multiple fallout elements, as we were told during a recent interview this is just the beginning of wanda story so I'm not expecting everything to be immediately evident, the aftermath is a largely unexplored territory clearly left to future movies or series.

[Wiccan]

Imo I think it's safe to say that at least by the end of episode 3 she was fully aware. But as it's shown in this episode she didn't really know how it was hurting the citizens. She thought the sitcom lifes made them happy as it made her (or at least convinced herself of that).

[Albert1981]

Wanda's self awareness was coming and going through the whole show imo.

I could copypaste 10 positive opinions for every negative one but there wouldn't be any real point to it, cutting snippets of other peoples opinions like you are doing and pasting them here seems like an exercise in futility, at the end of the day people feel the way they feel and arguments start to become circular.

Agatha found the trouble she was looking for, she didn't do anything particularly bad but she didn't do anything right either, she wanted more power for herself by taking advantage of wanda's mental breakdown and she got burned badly, wanda unintentionally released a reality warping weave and caused a lot of pain but she was never intent on hurting others, she's not perfect because she was not meant to be, when she realized the true consequences of her actions and the extent her own delusions made real she tried to put a stop to the hex regardless of her personal pain, the rest is history.

On my part I really liked the show and I think it provided an excellent starting platform for the development of multiple fallout elements, as we were told during a recent interview this is just the beginning of wanda story so I'm not expecting everything to be immediately evident, the aftermath is a largely unexplored territory clearly left to future movies or series.

I liked the show as well. I enjoyed it for the first eight episodes and I thought that parts of the last half of Episode 9 were great. But I don't really think that Wanda came to terms with her grief and depression. I was hoping that would be sort of settled by the end of this show, but it looks like she could be getting herself into more trouble in Strange 2. That's my take on it.

After some study, I'm thinking it's possible Wanda was suffering from dissociative amnesia maybe? If she had been written as amnesiac and not knowing she was torturing people, I would feel VERY differently about this series and its conclusion. But explaining dissociative amnesia in a Disney project would be EXTREMELY difficult to say the least.

[GenericUsername]

I liked the show as well. I enjoyed it for the first eight episodes and I thought that parts of the last half of Episode 9 were great. But I don't really think that Wanda came to terms with her grief and depression. I was hoping that would be sort of settled by the end of this show, but it looks like she could be getting herself into more trouble in Strange 2. That's my take on it.

After some study, I'm thinking it's possible Wanda was suffering from dissociative amnesia maybe? If she had been written as amnesiac and not knowing she was torturing people, I would feel VERY differently about this series and its conclusion. But explaining dissociative amnesia in a Disney project would be EXTREMELY difficult to say the least.

I don't think that's true. She did bring down the world. So she did reach acceptance stage. Depression does not go away, nor mourning for loved ones. But actively she doesn't seem to be in that fantasy dream state of avoiding it. And I don't see that last scene as ominous like others do. I think she's just learning about herself. And because she's an astral projection, it'll likely protect her from the book of sins.

Now the more trouble thing depends. Because whatever unspeakable evil Mordo forces Strange to unleash is likely something Wanda will have to deal with too. Since she's in that movie. And maybe that will be the link to where her kids are.

It's not amnesia. She just wasn't willing to confront what's really going on. Amnesia is not being able to remember. And the only things she didn't remember were things that never existed. Because she made up this little bubble. So things like anniversaries and such wouldn't exist there.

[CJStriker]

Wanda's self awareness was coming and going through the whole show as others have explained multiple times.

I could copypaste 10 positive opinions for every negative one but there wouldn't be any real point to it, cutting snippets of other peoples opinions like you are doing and pasting them here seems like an exercise in futility, at the end of the day people feel the way they feel and arguments start to become circular.

Agatha found the trouble she was looking for, she didn't do anything particularly bad but she didn't do anything right either, she wanted more power for herself by taking advantage of wanda's mental breakdown and she got burned badly, wanda unintentionally released a reality warping weave and caused a lot of pain but she was never intent on hurting others, she's not perfect because she was not meant to be, when she realized the true consequences of her actions and the extent her own delusions made real she tried to put a stop to the hex regardless of her personal pain, the rest is history.

On my part I really liked the show and I think it provided an excellent starting platform for the development of multiple fallout elements, as we were told during a recent interview this is just the beginning of wanda story so I'm not expecting everything to be immediately evident, the aftermath is a largely unexplored territory clearly left to future movies or series.

Imo I think it's safe to say that at least by the end of episode 3 she was fully aware. But as it's shown in this episode she didn't really know how it was hurting the citizens. She thought the sitcom lifes made them happy as it made her (or at least convinced herself of that).

I think that is where it comes down to, the interpritation of the material and story and the debate thus follows from that that we have here to figure out what the writers where going for. So when we have that dicussion we put out our views of the situation we where given and give our views on what we interprited, then take others views and add it to our on to morph our views better. I know I gained FAR more insight into the episode by reading posts here and on both YouTube comments and Videos to shape where my views came to well after seeing the end of this or really any episode.

Thus before anything else a major important fact that much always be addressed is that if such a sitiuation was befalling any other Character Besides Wanda, people knowing how much I care for her character in most adapatations, the question would come would I treat any other character with the same posts and explinations as I do Wanda.

Answer: YES!

I Believe in Univerial Treatment of characters and concepts and if that same situation, events and mannerisms I be viewing and treating them the Same way with the same style of posts. So It is not a matter of WHO it is, the only difference in the end of the who is how far and long I will debate a subject, with Wanda it be much longer then would be say a Jean Grey or a Clark Kent, but if this befell them I would be saying and stating the same views as I do for Wanda.

That is the Fair Treat of Characters as Equals I Universally Believe In and for a Longtime too, well Before CBR!

So As for My Views on the Awakening, I stick greatly to Episode 8 otherwise the journey Wanda went on in that would not matter if she was already Awakened before, then it would have been a pointless episode that journey and the power of the reveals.

As for why that I refer back to an ealier post of mine linked her about Mental Trauma, Illiness and how it effects one that others can't rationalize away;

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post5416494

Also in my theory I suggest part of the sitcom realitizes Wanda was apart of where ofshoots of her Mental Entrapment and Trauma, it was after the events of Episode 8 when they fully stop. That is part of my post in the link too.

[Daedra]

I liked the show as well. I enjoyed it for the first eight episodes and I thought that parts of the last half of Episode 9 were great. But I don't really think that Wanda came to terms with her grief and depression. I was hoping that would be sort of settled by the end of this show, but it looks like she could be getting herself into more trouble in Strange 2. That's my take on it.

After some study, I'm thinking it's possible Wanda was suffering from dissociative amnesia maybe? If she had been written as amnesiac and not knowing she was torturing people, I would feel VERY differently about this series and its conclusion. But explaining dissociative amnesia in a Disney project would be EXTREMELY difficult to say the least.

....and this is why I think these consideration were left to the different sensibilities of a varied viewership, one thing I would like to highlight is that when confronted with the citizens pain in episode 9 Wanda reaction after a very momentary denial was to immediately put a stop to the hex, if she had known all along they were in pain why would she stop now? it would have made no difference to her.
Wanda's shock and the fact that she gave up her reality warping fantasies after being confronted means hurting others was never her intent for sure.

[CJStriker]

....and this is why I think these consideration were left to the different sensibilities of a varied viewership, one thing I would like to highlight is that when confronted with the citizens pain in episode 9 Wanda reaction after a very momentary denial was to immediately put a stop to the hex, if she had known all along they were in pain why would she stop now? it would have made no difference to her.
Wanda's shock and the fact that she gave up her reality warping fantasies after being confronted means hurting others was never her intent for sure.

[CJStriker]

great post CJ I think this sums it up pretty accurately, looking for consistence in a self inflicted chaos magic induced delusion + a major depressive episode is never going to work. I think some people just wanted this to turn into their own version of the mcu but the writers have their plans and their reasons and the show did accomplish to deliver the status quo the writers wanted, so many others (especially the one non familiar with comics) just enjoyed it for the adventure it was and got a much more satisfying viewing experience out of it.
In my opinion the intent with wandavision was to bring us viewers across a new narrative river but this ride was not meant to reach the proverbial "other side", we were left in the middle of it all because the movies are going to be the missing puzzle piece. This is all just an "entrée" and the covid crisis kind of widened the supposed gap between the servings, impatience has not a point.

Thanks Daedra, Glad you got a allot out of my post.

In my Conclusion of that and going with your post, I HIGHLY and I could not stress this More, I Recommmend Everyone Watch the Video Down Below.

It is a Major Revelation toward How I viewed Wanda threw these episode, the true struggles of Trauma and Mental Harm can do to a person, what Wanda was Truly going threw, what the truth was behind the sitcom episdoes and why Episode 8 which I call "The Awakening" was so Important!

Again for All, Watch this Threw from Beginning to End to see what I have been getting at;

[gurkle]

I wanted to crosspost from another thread why WandaVision left me so upset.

(Spoilers follow)

I don't mind that they took Wanda to a dark place, but I feel like the MCU creators don't see Wanda as cut out to be a hero. She tortured innocent people who were begging to be set free, and the only excuse they gave her is that she deluded herself into thinking they were happy. As Agatha pointed out, "heroes don't torture people." There was nothing in the entire series to show that she cared about anyone but herself. Sure, Monica told her about the sacrifice she made, but come on, everyone knew why that line was silly. And they didn't even give Wanda a chance to apologize to anyone except Monica, who was practically her only victim who got helped and not hurt.

Maybe they intend for her to come back from this in Doctor Strange 2, or the now-inevitable WandaVision 2. And maybe they don't. But if you compare how they portrayed Carol coming into her full power, it's clear which character they think is good and which one they think is dangerous and scary.

So the message I got from the series is that Wanda isn't cut out to be a hero, and now that Vision isn't there to pull her back from the brink, she has to accept that her destiny is darkness and chaos. I don't see any hope that they'll let her help people. And if the MCU won't portray her as a true hero then it's unlikely the comics will.

So I have to stop following Wanda. It's very hard because I love and identify with the character so much. But I think it's clear to me that everyone in power at Marvel thinks she's "more interesting" if she's not a true hero. If they make her a quasi-villain in her first starring role, then I don't see how they will ever stop.

I'm much too depressed over a fictional character than I should be, I know. Maybe it's just that the character has helped me through some tough times and looking forward to her show helped me through this horrible year, and then they go and do this.

If I'm proven wrong and her next MCU role treats her better, then maybe I'll start following her again. But I have to stop following her now and learn to let her go.

[Rang10]

....and this is why I think these consideration were left to the different sensibilities of a varied viewership, one thing I would like to highlight is that when confronted with the citizens pain in episode 9 Wanda reaction after a very momentary denial was to immediately put a stop to the hex, if she had known all along they were in pain why would she stop now? it would have made no difference to her.
Wanda's shock and the fact that she gave up her reality warping fantasies after being confronted means hurting others was never her intent for sure.

This is a important observation. She never wante to hurt anyone, she didnt even wanted to cast the spell. It just happened because she wasnt aware of her own power.
Wth great powers come great responsability

[MichaelC]

Wanda is infinitely more interesting than Captain Marvel. Captain Marvel is a flat, dull, Mary Sue and watching her is a chore. Whereas I put WandaVision up there with the best television in history. But yes, part of that is that she's flawed. Marvel is about flawed characters rather than purely aspirational heroes. The few aspirational heroes they have are mostly just there to contrast the more interesting, flawed characters. It's not an accident that the MCU started with Iron Man and was basically about him for a decade. Now is the era of Scarlet Witch, and like it or not there are similar reasons for that.

[Thor-Ul]

I have a question maybe others have already answer but I still have me a little intrigued:

HexVision and the children were created by the magic of Wanda, I got that. But they were independent thoughtforms or tulpas or were in some level still a fragment of Wanda's own unconcious psyche? I mean, Vision could be a fragment of Wanda trying to piece everything right.

[gurkle]

I have a question maybe others have already answer but I still have me a little intrigued:

HexVision and the children were created by the magic of Wanda, I got that. But they were independent thoughtforms or tulpas or were in some level still a fragment of Wanda's own unconcious psyche? I mean, Vision could be a fragment of Wanda trying to piece everything right.

Wanda's line about Billy and Tommy choosing her to be their mom, along with them still existing after the Hex went away, suggests that they have some kind of independent existence.

But then again so many things were said in this series that never paid off, that I'm not sure if Wanda's line is supposed to mean anything or is just another red herring.

[Rang10]

I wanted to crosspost from another thread why WandaVision left me so upset.

(Spoilers follow)

I don't mind that they took Wanda to a dark place, but I feel like the MCU creators don't see Wanda as cut out to be a hero. She tortured innocent people who were begging to be set free, and the only excuse they gave her is that she deluded herself into thinking they were happy. As Agatha pointed out, "heroes don't torture people." There was nothing in the entire series to show that she cared about anyone but herself. Sure, Monica told her about the sacrifice she made, but come on, everyone knew why that line was silly. And they didn't even give Wanda a chance to apologize to anyone except Monica, who was practically her only victim who got helped and not hurt.

Maybe they intend for her to come back from this in Doctor Strange 2, or the now-inevitable WandaVision 2. And maybe they don't. But if you compare how they portrayed Carol coming into her full power, it's clear which character they think is good and which one they think is dangerous and scary.

So the message I got from the series is that Wanda isn't cut out to be a hero, and now that Vision isn't there to pull her back from the brink, she has to accept that her destiny is darkness and chaos. I don't see any hope that they'll let her help people. And if the MCU won't portray her as a true hero then it's unlikely the comics will.

So I have to stop following Wanda. It's very hard because I love and identify with the character so much. But I think it's clear to me that everyone in power at Marvel thinks she's "more interesting" if she's not a true hero. If they make her a quasi-villain in her first starring role, then I don't see how they will ever stop.

I'm much too depressed over a fictional character than I should be, I know. Maybe it's just that the character has helped me through some tough times and looking forward to her show helped me through this horrible year, and then they go and do this.

If I'm proven wrong and her next MCU role treats her better, then maybe I'll start following her again. But I have to stop following her now and learn to let her go.

Compare Carol to Wanda is interesting. because without her memories, Carol was also doing atrocities.

I really don't think they are framing Wanda as being bad, they are framing her as broken. She still on the start of her own heroes journey, mistakes were made but it wasn't completely her fault.

Wanda cares about other people or she would just continue the hex and have her family. She barely can help herself, she cant help anothers. That is why she isolate herself

[Wiccan]

I have a question maybe others have already answer but I still have me a little intrigued:

HexVision and the children were created by the magic of Wanda, I got that. But they were independent thoughtforms or tulpas or were in some level still a fragment of Wanda's own unconcious psyche? I mean, Vision could be a fragment of Wanda trying to piece everything right.

I don't think they were ever implied to not be independent. I mean, I guess Vision was a part of her in some level, as comes from her not just from "magic" but the power of the Mind Stone which used to animate him, and she says at the end that he's "A piece of the mind stone that lives inside me". But I don't think the idea that he was literally "her consciousness" telling her to stop or anything is supported at all.