Wandavision

[OblivionX33]

It’s probably a deliberate irony that it’s Agatha who breaks through to Wanda to show her that she’s hurting people. It fits in with the pattern that it’s Agatha who helps Wanda the most in the last two episodes, when Vision and Monica couldn’t get through.

But it’s also part of the general sloppiness of the writing that apparently Vision could have fixed all this simply by breaking Wanda’s mind control on someone in front of Wanda. Apparently that’s all it took. But he never bothered to tell her, granted that Agatha was actively working to stop him from telling her.

Again the problem is not that Wanda did this but that the mystery format meant they couldn’t definitely say it until the end. Remember how “Norm” didn’t say who was controlling him or that “Agnes” told Vision that Wanda wouldn’t even let them think about leaving (which wasn’t exactly true)? All these red herrings got in the way of telling this very simple story of Wanda’s denial and her dilemma once she realizes what she’s done — and we never even find out exactly when she became aware, because we only see her from the outside.

The show is a tragedy of Wanda (tragic heroes do bad things), but it was disguised as a mystery, which made it more popular but less good than if we had actually seen it from Wanda’s POV and known what she knew.

Vision did tell her though but Wanda shut him down, mid credit roll...

[Albert1981]

I just want to repeat AGAIN it doesn't so much matter what we think of Wanda, the debate about her actions is compelling and worth having. What's actually important is how the characters in the story react to her. Which has been noted previously here in this very thread: poorly. I just wish the show was actually a little bit longer (a sentiment I hardly ever express about television shows) in order for Monica to flesh out her subplot. The townfolk said they were having Wanda's nightmares, so what a shame we never got a scene of Monica experiencing that, in order to properly sell her abysmal line in the ending. If we had seen that, maybe it would have made much more sense. Tone is also important in conveying intent to an audience. i.e. - a triumphant camera panning down on a crime scene with pleasant music indicating the bad people have been vanquished is cliched bullshit. The ending of the show was just too tonally weird for me. We'll likely get a more satisfactory glimpse into how characters regard Wanda in Dr Strange 2, than in her own damn TV show, which is a fucking shame.

[gurkle]

Vision did tell her though but Wanda shut him down, mid credit roll...

But he kept talking through the credits. The scene was ambiguous about how much Wanda knew but Agatha sent in “Ralph” at that moment to stop Vision from getting through to Wanda, who at that point was no longer making Vision follow the storyline.

[Havok83]

Let's be honest. Hayward by far was portrayed the worst in that show. He literally was a Saturday morning cartoon villain. But Monica, Agatha, and Wanda didn't come out of it looking great either. Agatha and Monica were pretty lame in that last episode. I definitely agree that Wanda and Monica should have made SOME efforts to help fix Westview, it would have taken the sting out of what Wanda did there.

Hayward wasnt wrong. The worst he is guilty of IMO is trying to cover things up, but ultimately he was doing his job. What Wanda was doing with the hex f--ked up and she needed to be stopped. He mainly comes across bad bc we are meant to sympathize with her. He was more of an antagonist than villian. Those roles were reserved for Agatha and Wanda. I dont think Hayward was necesarily wrong in most of the things he did in this show

[MaximoffTrash]

id love to have chton but since they didnt even bother with the vishanti when they are a key component of what makes a sorcerer supreme, turning the eye of AGAMOTHO into the time stone, I don't see chton :/
Willing to be surprised tho

I thought the Eye of Agamotto is the device that contains the Time Stone, more or less like how "Tesseract doesn't equal Space Stone, Scepter doesn't equal Mind Stone, etc", there is always an Outer structure used to harness/contain their power. There is still some entity that potentially built that structure that hold the Stone, and that could very well be Agamotto.(And they mentioned him as much, though him being a mortal or a god is not certain.)
Also Doctor Strange 2016 is still kinda conservative on the showing of magic while Infinity War, Endgame and WV are not, I am less worried about them not willing to bring in the lore elements at this point. Again MCU tend to ignore "unnecessary stuff", but DS2 may give him some kind of "Trial of Vishanti" storyline so he can be Sorcerer Supreme proper, who know?

[Albert1981]

Hayward wasnt wrong. The worst he is guilty of IMO is trying to cover things up, but ultimately he was doing his job. What Wanda was doing with the hex f--ked up and she needed to be stopped. He mainly comes across bad bc we are meant to sympathize with her. He was more of an antagonist than villian. Those roles were reserved for Agatha and Wanda. I dont think Hayward was necesarily wrong in most of the things he did in this show

I think Hayward was wrong to try to pump the twins with bullets and lie about what he was doing to Vision's body. I think Agatha was wrong to murder Sparky and choke the boys. But I think those things happened in order to show how comically "EVIL" the two of them were to distract audiences from what Wanda was doing. And apparently it worked for a lot of people. But it didn't work on me.

[GenericUsername]

Hayward wasnt wrong. The worst he is guilty of IMO is trying to cover things up, but ultimately he was doing his job. What Wanda was doing with the hex f--ked up and she needed to be stopped. He mainly comes across bad bc we are meant to sympathize with her. He was more of an antagonist than villian. Those roles were reserved for Agatha and Wanda. I dont think Hayward was necesarily wrong in most of the things he did in this show

Yeah the thing with Hayward though is I think he was using legit concern to conceal what he was actually doing. Because he was trying to get Wanda to bring back Vision even before she created the Hex. So it wasn't even like he needed to bring back the Vision to stop her. And even then maybe bringing him back to get her to calm down instead of attacking her and creating more damage to the town.

It's interesting that he, Wanda and Agatha are all antagonists in their own ways, but the resolution wasn't really one. And I know that's because Wanda's story will continue. Maybe Hayward's will somewhere too. But what about Agatha?

[LordUltimus]

Yeah the thing with Hayward though is I think he was using legit concern to conceal what he was actually doing. Because he was trying to get Wanda to bring back Vision even before she created the Hex. So it wasn't even like he needed to bring back the Vision to stop her. And even then maybe bringing him back to get her to calm down instead of attacking her and creating more damage to the town.

It's interesting that he, Wanda and Agatha are all antagonists in their own ways, but the resolution wasn't really one. And I know that's because Wanda's story will continue. Maybe Hayward's will somewhere too. But what about Agatha?

We're getting an FF movie. Nanny Agatha when we get a Franklin Richards?

[Rang10]

Hayward wasnt wrong. The worst he is guilty of IMO is trying to cover things up, but ultimately he was doing his job. What Wanda was doing with the hex f--ked up and she needed to be stopped. He mainly comes across bad bc we are meant to sympathize with her. He was more of an antagonist than villian. Those roles were reserved for Agatha and Wanda. I dont think Hayward was necesarily wrong in most of the things he did in this show

He comes bad because he is bad. His approach is a cop shooting a suspect without giving hi a chance to surrender.

Monica comes good because she learned a way to do it with less collaterlal damage.

[teapartyofthedead]

I don't know why so many Wanda fans here are so sanguine about her future. I'm not. I'm actually more pessimistic than ever to tell you the truth and I'm usually quite positive on MCU portrayals of their characters (even including Ultron and the "Mandarin").

I’m only now wading through the social media reaction to WandaVision. My first impression seems that most people are busy arguing about Fietro and to what degree was everyone having high expectations and Marvel deliberately overhyping it as a Multiverse mystery box show. Most of them aren’t comic fans though, and of them, most weren’t Wanda fans. But I also imagine that as more and more people think the implications through, that will come to the surface more.

[gurkle]

I wish they hadn’t made Hayward such a cartoon villain, but he is. Wanting to kill Wanda isn’t necessarily wrong under the circumstances, trying to do it without telling anyone is, and it turns out he just wanted to get some of Wanda’s magic to revive Vision, and then kill Wanda to cover up what he’d done.

It would be more interesting to have someone make the case for trying to take Wanda down by surprise, but we didn’t get that. So what he did was put the lives of everyone in Westview at risk and make it impossible to convince Wanda to stand down.

Unfortunately both Agatha and Hayward were made to act like cartoon villains because the show needed villains, when they’re not actually wrong in theory.

[MaximoffTrash]

I agree, it was mostly a joke about the cinematic phases from marvel marketing department, by the way ... now that you mention it, are we sure Wanda is a mortal mortal? Starting to wonder if mama Natalya had a thing for lonely elder gods of chaos

Mortal as in not a god.(Like in so many fantasies, those deities/demons keep calling chosen one characters mortal with some smug voice.)
In terms of life span, she is probably just your average human as shown in most comics, curiously enough her daughter Kya in the future AU of Thor V2 lived for nearly 200 years before being killed.(Again, character lifespan is mostly pointless unless you want to do Old Man Logan, King Thor type of stories.)

[CJStriker]

It's interesting that he, Wanda and Agatha are all antagonists in their own ways, but the resolution wasn't really one. And I know that's because Wanda's story will continue. Maybe Hayward's will somewhere too. But what about Agatha?

Hayward was Breaking the Sokovia Accords thinking he was way above the law that all others had to follow and Violated Visions Body grotest ways and his Civil Rights and Wishes when he abused his body to make him a Weapon long before Wanda came to see him.

His Bigotry against Metahumans was already stated by himself, so he was well already on the way towards this Future for himself;

[MaximoffTrash]

He comes bad because he is bad. His approach is a cop shooting a suspect without giving hi a chance to surrender.

Monica comes good because she learned a way to do it with less collaterlal damage.

I think the worst part is him purposefully hiding his intent with Vision's body though, like, how many people even know(Monica is pretty high rank and even she wasn't informed), it would be one thing to extract Vibranium from Vision's body and use it for something else(or just seal them), since there is an argument to be made about keeping rare/dangerous material in safe hands.(And Wanda is mostly reasonable other than breaking some glass)
But I guess Ultron's design for a synthezoid is just too good to pass on?(No one is able to replicate Vision's creation process I think, he is significantly more powerful than your average robotic soldier.) They don't have efficient ways of building their own killer robots, yet.

[GenericUsername]

Hayward was Breaking the Sokovia Accords thinking he was way above the law that all others had to follow and Violated Visions Body grotest ways and his Civil Rights and Wishes when he abused his body to make him a Weapon long before Wanda came to see him.

His Bigotry against Metahumans was already stated by himself, so he was well already on the way towards this Future for himself;

I've been thinking that he's a version of Gyrich.